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belfast col

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  1. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from warpigroadkill in Article ::MK8 Golf R to have 350HP and a shed load of Tech   
    Just bought the mag and read this. I'd say if the 306 bhp 7.5 cracks 60 in 4.6 then 350 will do around 4.2. Stage 1 map dips it under 4 seconds. Things are getting brilliantly silly!! 
     
    Bring it on.
  2. Like
    belfast col reacted to SpursMadDave in Not been on for a while.   
    As someone that has had cancer and beaten it I wish you the very very best for the treatment and recovery, I'm sure it is all about keeping a positive attitude and beating it!

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  3. Like
    belfast col reacted to Booth11 in Not been on for a while.   
    I’m sure I speak for all here in saying we are all wishing you very best with your treatment Camel.  At least with the diagnosis now you know.  Show the “pussy cancer” the exit door, however long it takes.  You have a great positive mental attitude that will see you through the rough mate. That’s a huge plus.  Rooting for you Camel, and your family too. 
  4. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from camelsac2002 in Not been on for a while.   
    Hey buddy, Sorry to read this. 
     
    Even though I'm not on as much as I used to be (used to be a total gob shite) this place has kept me sane over the years.
     
    I hope you get sorted and feel free to use us as a form of head space!!
     
    Col
  5. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from paulwilkie0 in Not been on for a while.   
    Hey buddy, Sorry to read this. 
     
    Even though I'm not on as much as I used to be (used to be a total gob shite) this place has kept me sane over the years.
     
    I hope you get sorted and feel free to use us as a form of head space!!
     
    Col
  6. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from Bnkrs1789 in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  7. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from JamesHogan007 in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  8. Like
    belfast col reacted to daz05 in 5 years since release - still the benchmark?   
    Can you believe it's been 5 years since the R was released.  I've made a little video of reviewing it while driving some scenic roads in Scotland.  Check it out, would you still buy one today, I think I probably would.
     
     
  9. Upvote
    belfast col got a reaction from bneh in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  10. Upvote
    belfast col got a reaction from Berty182 in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  11. Haha
    belfast col got a reaction from invisiblekid in Stickers!   
    Mr Bellend Col to you lad.
     
    Ps. Dan is sorting them.
  12. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from Paradox1 in T-Roc R Photos   
    I believe it's the 296 bhp engine from the Mk7.
  13. Like
    belfast col reacted to Hertsman in Golf - now confirmed dead (new photos)   
    Looks very SEAT 
     
    Having seen the Geneva VW presentation where all focus was on the semi autonomous, connected tech the MK 8 will maybe a be a step too far for many with the actual driving experience remaining static (no bad thing obviously given how good present is) but the additional tech more a put off than an attraction (is for me) 
     
    the MK 8 will be no more than a MK 7.75 thats become clearer and clearer since ditched the hybrid drives and where semi autonomous tech is seemingly where the big sale lies (which will likely draw more to the standard Golf, but GTI and R drivers buy their cars for a reason, to drive them!!)
  14. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from Pukei in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  15. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from r600_clubsport in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  16. Thanks
    belfast col got a reaction from Booth11 in Stickers!   
    Yeah we're out of stock Becs.
     
    Will chat to the guys and see when the next batch are due!!
    @Danno @Stubsy @invisiblekid
  17. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from Trickz in Stickers!   
    Yeah we're out of stock Becs.
     
    Will chat to the guys and see when the next batch are due!!
    @Danno @Stubsy @invisiblekid
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    belfast col got a reaction from Jon-Paul in Article :: Official image released of Mk8 hatchback   
    The next Golf has been teased in the first official image ahead of the car's expected debut in the middle of next year.
     
    A sketch of the new car, released by VW, shows an outline of the side profile of VW's Ford Focus rival. The shape appear broadly similar to today's car, but a new front grille and light design - previewed by the latest Touareg SUV - is hinted at.
     
    The Mk8 Golf, which will go into production in the autumn, will have levels of fuel-saving technology, connectivity, autonomous driving capability and refinement which is intended to render the mainstream competition second best. The Golf’s exterior styling, previously hinted at by a sketch shown at a suppliers’ meeting at the start of the year, will be an evolutionary design that again emphasises a wide, flowing C-pillar. There is expected to be a little more sharp-edged definition to the bodywork, following the template of the latest Polo. The GTI version will feature large corner air vents in its lower bumper, as previewed by the GTI TCR concept earlier this year.
     
     
    VW will use the Mk8 Golf to introduce a powerful 48 mild-hybrid powertrain, most likely on the R and GTI models – which will offer a previously unseen brand of instant performance – and a new range of micro-hybrids. There will also be versions powered by compressed natural gas, but there won’t be a pure-electric Golf because VW will begin introducing its new ID range of electric cars shortly after the Mk8 is launched.
     
     
    The model’s range will be simplified, with the three door and estate body styles the most likely candidates for the axe. With consumers increasingly turning to SUVs and crossovers, and with makers of large mainstream cars under significant cost and profit pressures, insiders say the Golf Mk8 will attempt to lure buyers who are downsizing from larger cars and premium models such as the BMW 3 Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class, offering more cabin and luggage space than is normal in this segment, outstanding refinement and exceptional fuel economy.
     
     
    The new Golf will have a noticeably wider track and even more room in the already spacious cabin, as well as a marginally longer wheelbase and a bigger boot than its hatchback rivals.
    The car is also expected to have an interior that’s almost completely devoid of conventional switches, at least on the higher-end models. VW design boss Klaus Bischoff has been quoted as saying that the Mk8’s interior is a “total” digital environment, with the steering wheel the only conventional component. Touchscreens will replace the traditional instrument binnacle and the climate controls. Even the headlight switch could be replaced by a touchpad.
     
    The basis for the next Golf is an updated version of the versatile MQB platform used by today’s model. VW insiders suggest it will use a greater percentage of lightweight metal than the existing structure for a 50kg reduction in weight.
     
     
    Planned modifications to the construction process are also said to provide more streamlined production and reduced build times as part of a strategy aimed at improving the economy of scale and profitability of VW’s best-selling model.
     
     
    Although there is still some time to go before the new Golf’s introduction, VW says it has already locked in the car’s design, which has been developed under the guidance of the company’s latest design boss, Michael Mauer, who was responsible for the styling of the current Porsche line-up.
     
     
    Those privy to the latest clay model mock-ups say the new Golf advances the classic hatchback look of its predecessors, with familiar proportions, reinterpreted details and simple surfacing to make it instantly recognisable as a Golf.
     
    Key styling features described to Autocar include a thin horizontal grille bookmarked by smaller angular headlights than those in use today, with a distinctive LED daytime running light graphic. The new car is also said to have more pronounced wheel arches and a heavily defined side swage line, in combination with typically wide C-pillars and a relatively upright tailgate.
     
    The new Golf Mk8 will get a range of 12V mild-hybrid engines for the entry-level and mid-range variants. The 1.5-litre TSI ACT petrol unit will be carried over from today’s Golf Mk7 but this will be joined by a 1.0-litre three-cylinder petrol motor and an all-new 1.5-litre diesel, which is also likely to be sold as a 12V mild hybrid. Autocar understands that the assistance of the mild-hybrid system’s starter/ generator lessens the load on the engine and reduces the spikes of NOx emissions from the diesel’s exhaust.
     
     
    One of the more intriguing rumours is that the 1.0-litre petrol engines might not be turbocharged at all, but could instead rely solely on direct assistance from a belt-driven starter/generator motor (SGM). The thinking is that the SGM will provide enough extra power and torque for the base engines, allowing the turbocharger, intercooler and associated piping and control systems to be dropped.
     
     
    The Golf Mk8’s diesel line-up will include the new 2.0 TDI (codenamed EA288 Evo) engine. VW says the base version of this unit has been significantly re-engineered to reduce exhaust pollution. There is a more efficient and responsive turbocharger and the engine is lighter, loses less heat and has reduced internal friction.
     
     
    More important, the engine’s particulate filter and catalyst have been resized for improved performance, particularly over time. VW claimed the engine offers an average of 9% more torque and power together with an average 10g/km decrease in CO2 emissions. The firm said the new diesel unit will come in versions ranging from 135bhp to 201bhp and will be seen in Audi modelsbefore being installed in the Golf Mk8 next year.
     
     
    VW has already released details of the Golf’s 1.5-litre TGI Evo natural gas engine, production of which starts this year. Based on the 1.5-litre TSI engine, the TGI unit uses the same Miller cycle valve timing and a variable geometry turbocharger. It develops 129bhp and 148lb ft from 1400rpm when installed in the Golf Mk7. VW claims that this engine emits about 93g/km of CO2 on the NEDC cycle when it is hooked up to the standard- issue dual-clutch gearbox. Natural gas engines are also lower in NOx and particulate emissions than diesel and cars can be refilled from the gas mains network via small wall-mounted compressors. However, the lack of a natural gas infrastructure in the UK means this variant is unlikely to reach these shores.
     
    The new or upgraded powertrains will be offered in combination with either a six-speed manual or seven-speed dual-clutch automatic gearbox, depending on their configuration. Alongside front-wheel drive, VW also plans to offer optional four-wheel drive (which it calls 4Motion) in selected models, like it has done in the previous four generations of its perennial best seller.
     
     
    Two kinds of mild hybrid
     
     
    The big surprise for the Golf Mk8 drivetrains is that VW says it will be investing in both 12V and 48V mild-hybrid systems after the company re-engineered the Golf family MQB electrical architecture (one of the more expensive component systems in a car) to accommodate a 48V system. Until now, 48V mild hybrids have only been used in premium VW Group cars such as the Bentley Bentayga and Audi SQ7.
     
     
    Frank Welsch, VW’s technical development boss, has already revealed the firm’s new ‘affordable’ 48V system, which uses a belt-integrated starter/ generator/alternator to assist the engine by providing extra power and torque directly to the engine’s crankshaft.
    The key to adopting 48V in a mass-market car was VW and its suppliers developing a less expensive and more compact set-up, which uses a small DC-to-DC converter and small lithium ion battery.
     
     
    Welsch said the 48V set-up allows much greater amounts of energy to be recuperated than with 12V systems, which means significantly improved fuel economy. These new mild-hybrid engines can also start and stop extremely quickly, which will allow the Golf Mk8 to switch in and out of coasting mode when driving, making further fuel savings.
     
    GTI set to go hybrid, too
    The next-generation Golf GTI is also set to adopt a mild hybrid powertrain.  The adoption of the 48V electrical system and integrated starter motor on the new hot hatchback are set to make the upcoming model the most powerful series-production Golf GTI yet.
     
     
    Although the new Golf GTI is still almost two years away from introduction, sources close to VW research and development boss Frank Welsch have revealed that the initial performance targets point to a power output similar to the 261bhp of the limited-edition Golf GTI Clubsport.
    Scheduled to go on sale in the UK in 2020, the Mk8 Golf GTI will retain an internal combustion engine: VW’s familiar turbocharged 2.0-litre petrol unit. However, the introduction of the 48V electric system will allow the four-cylinder engine to receive comprehensive modifications. It’s likely that the exhaust gas turbocharger of today’s model will make way for an electrically operated compressor that offers improved low-end response and a broader plateau of torque for added flexibility.
     
    Additionally, the integrated starter motor will allow VW to provide the front-wheel-drive Golf GTI with a so-called boost function, in which an electric motor mounted in the front section of its standard seven-speed dual-clutch automatic gearbox supplements the combustion engine in Performance mode.  
     
    Connected tech takes precedence
    VW sources have already promised that the next Golf will be ‘always connected’. Using the same eSIM card that has already appeared in the new Touareg, the Golf Mk8 will be permanently connected to the internet. This will allow the car to tap into 3D satellite mapping, hybrid radio (where the audio system finds the strongest signal for a station, whether analogue or digital) and the option of live information such as the latest pricing at nearby fuel stations.
    The permanent connectivity opens the way for these future models to ‘read’ the topography of the road from 3D mapping, for example, and switch to coasting when heading downhill, or approaching a junction.
     
     
    Autonomous driving will be a key feature of VW's best-seller in its eighth generation, as the brand will shoehorn even more advanced autonomous technology into the new model, as well as ensuring that it is the most connected car in the company's history, ahead of the all-electric ID hatchback that's also due in late 2019. 
     
     
    Head of VW's compact series, Karlheinz Hell, revealed: "The next Golf will take Volkswagen into the era of fully connected vehicles with extended autonomous driving functions. It will have more software on board than ever before. It will always be online and its digital cockpit and assistance systems will be the benchmark in terms of connectivity and safety."
     
     
    The current Golf benefits from VW's semi-autonomous Traffic Jam Assist system, which controls the steering, acceleration and braking of the car under 37mph, so it's certain that the Mk8 model will take a leap in advancement over this. Elsewhere, the Audi A8 is the first car in the wider VW Group to achieve Level 3 autonomy where permitted.
     
    Golf to set VW design agenda
    While the new Golf will be an evolutionary take on the outgoing car, it will feature new design elements that design chief Klaus Bischoff described being “more fluid, more sporty with a very unique face”.
     
     
    It’s part of a new VW strategy to differentiate its standard model range from the new ID family of electric cars, said Bischoff: “[ID is] a new world of proportions and totally new bodystyles which are more emotional. As we go through the ceiling design- wise on ID cars, we need to echo that with ICE cars, so these will have more sporty proportions [and] a more progressive, clean design.”
     
     
    Bischoff said future cars will remain faithful to VW’s traditional design cues: “We are looking to our origins so no ‘me too’ products. They will all remain as very individual VWs.
    “If you look at front- of-car designs, nearly everybody is copying Audi. VW will go down its own road to stay true to the brand, and not look over the fence to others.” 
    Volkswagen reaps MQB’s rewards
    Volkswagen’s MQB architecture underpins its bestselling model, the Golf, of which 968,284 were sold in 2017.
    The modular toolkit is used for most of the firm’s most successful models. In total, five MQB models currently account for 3.8 million global sales.
     
     
    The firm’s second-bestseller last year was the Jetta/Sagitar (the latter is a Chinese-market compact saloon), with 883,346 units sold. The seventh-generation Jetta, which went on sale this year, is now based on MQB, as are the firm’s two next bestsellers: the Tiguan SUV (769,870 sold), in both short- and long-wheelbase forms, and the Polo. 
     
     
    The Lavida, a Jetta-sized MQB saloon sold only in China, is the firm’s sixth-bestselling model, with 507,000 made in 2017. That leaves the Passat/Magotan family, which is sold in Europe, the US and China. Current European versions of this model are built on MQB, with the US and Chinese versions switching to the architecture in 2019, adding another 660,000 or so MQB cars to the sales total.
     
     
    Those figures are simply for Volkswagen itself: the MQB toolkit is also used widely across the group’s other brands.
     
    Article: Autocar

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    belfast col reacted to Bigman in December 2018 - Photo of the Month competition   
    Instagram: FAT4Y
     
    Go follow me!

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  21. Upvote
    belfast col got a reaction from metal beat in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  22. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from JakeDickens in Understanding and using your DSG box.....   
    As many of you have asked for this to have a topic of its own I have posted it here. I've not put it in the MK7 area as it currently applies to all R's....
     
    Enjoy.....
     
    It's All About Avoiding DSG WTF Moments 
    What is a DSG WTF moment? If you have driven a DSG in manual mode, I bet you have had them. You are coming up on a stoplight in 4th gear, slowing down because the light is red, but you think you will catch the green, so you take your foot off the gas to slow down just a little, still in 4th....then right on queue you get the green light....a wave of euphoria sweeps over you for managing the delay (Your caveman ancestors would be beating their chest in this clear triumph) and you slam it down 2 gears and hit the gas the the floor and brace for the impending seat crushing acceleration and...... 

    .....absolutely nothing happens, its like you ran outta gas..... One thousand one....."What the fu----"...One thousand tw...... **PULL** **NECK SNAP** **Colorful Metaphor**..... 

    Thats a WTF moment. When you hit the gas expecting the car to move, but the transmission needed 1+ second to get into the right gear during which time you literally hit the engine brakes. You blame the DSG, just as your ancestors would. But unfortunately - this is all perfectly preventable (It was actually your fault) - Thats what this thread is about. Admitting you have a problem (hahah, okay okay) and looking for ways to fix it. 

    In almost every scenario I can think of ever having a WTF moment, the problems or unexpected behavior showed up when shifting into a lower gear from a higher one - So naturally most of the findings of this thread focus on this scenario. The DSG tends to weigh on the side of economy shifting, and you have to convince it you want anything else. You will almost never have a problem going from 0-100MPH cycling through all gears 1-6 sequentially, its going to be city driving where you downshift and the DSG simply wasn't ready for it. So how do we address that? 

    While the DSG is not new, I was amazed at how much misinformation I received on it, and disappointed on the lack of available information centered around how to drive it to get what you want. Everyone had an opinion, but there were very few that were based on facts. I went on a quest some time ago to answer my own questions into its "sometimes seeming bizarre behavior", and found a ton of information about the transmission, but most of it was geared towards maintenance and how it works, but very little was about mastering the use of it. So using this information I started compiling scenarios, and identifying and dissecting WTF moments, because this was the kind of information I wanted. 

    The DSG is not even close to an automatic - I knew this. But it took understanding some basics about how it worked to move forward in my quest. Now admittedly, I am not an engineer, and I don't pretend to know everything about a DSG, but here are some things that I have found which helped my understanding, and made driving a lot more fun. If there is a DSG engineer out there who wants to call bull**** on any of this, add 2 cents, or even anyone with conflicting findings - please be my guest to discuss it here. My goal is to share things discovered that, through theory as well as trial and error, can help everyone have more fun in the DSG. If I mis-state anything technical, just tell me, I will be more than happy to correct it. 

    Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG 
    To give a basis for the tips and tricks here, you first have to have a basic understanding about a couple things. Now I don't want to go into how the DSG works in whole, there are a lot of articles and some cool videos - I suggest you watch 
     in particular (if you haven't already) as it gives you a nice visual to see how the clutches and gearboxes work, and how the shifts are performed. But there are a couple of key takeaways important to understand : 

    1) There are basically (2) gearboxes. So simplistically imagine 2 separate transmissions, each with their own clutch. This basically means that while one gearbox is in second gear with its clutch engaged to the drivetrain, the "other" gearbox is disengaged, standing by in some other adjacent gear - 1st or 3rd - whatever gear which the DSG thinks you will ask for next. This is a very important concept, as you need to realize that the way you drive influences the decision as which one is "Queued up", and the DSG constantly changes this selection based on various environmental and driver inputs. 

    2) The gearboxes are gear specific, which means one gearbox handles gears 1,3,5 and the other gearbox handles 2,4, and R (in the NA 6 speed versions). The takeaway here is that each gearbox handles alternating gears. The power of a DSG is that while gear changes on one gearbox are relatively slow (anywhere up to ~800ms), the clutches can hand-off power from one gearbox to the other (changing your gear) almost in-perceptively quick, allowing the unused gearbox to shift to the next anticipated gear without the time being a factor. 

    3) The rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style". 


    The DSG is a Game - Play it - Really! 
    I have written a few other posts here and there, and I always refer to driving with a DSG as a game. Recently one of my friends asked me why I call it that, and I said "Because it literally takes strategy to do properly." This alone accounts for why I personally get more enjoyment out of driving my DSG than I did a manual. A manual let me do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted - But it was always the same motions - I could only improve if I got faster, and this was a physical limit. Driving a DSG on the other hand has serious shift speed potential, limited only by your mental strategy. And if you play the "game" right, you can get more out of it than you would a manual, with shifts a manual could never perform. Think of it like less of a tool, and more of a game. You have to constantly think ahead, to whats coming next - Plan ahead, direct the car to "know" what you will do next instead of reacting in the moment and confusing it. The two things that I isolated which allow you to get the most out of the DSG are : 

     Always do your best to make sure the gear you want to be in next is queued up in the other gearbox. After all, if that alternate gear is queued up correctly, you will get a 800ms (Sometimes a lot more), and possibly some unpleasant side effects. 
      Identify habits *you* have that give the DSG mixed signals and mess up your attempt to perfect your ability to set the alternate gear.  Disclaimer : These tips are just that - tips. There are MANY factors which influence the gear selection of the DSG, so far I haven't found just ONE thing that always works in every situation. Thats what makes it a game  But the things I have listed below seem to be prerequisites to other inputs working. i.e. at certain times, speed and RPM might force a different gear selection even if you do your best with pedal position - So if you can find some methods, post them! 


    Tip - Always let your clutch packs warm up. 
    I used to not think this was such a big deal, but its probably the biggest deal. Not only for reliability and longevity of your DSG, but for predicting its operation. The brains of the DSG will completely ignore "Driver Input Parameters" if its worried about making sure the "Prime Directive" (Haha - Yeah I know) is met. Don't think for a second that the reason you had odd behavior between hitting the gas and the car starting to move wasn't because you just started the car 20 seconds ago, and no fluid is where its supposed to be yet. Relax. Give it a minute, especially before you ride it hard and put it away wet. 


    Tip - Avoiding the Dreaded DSG Startup Lag - Release the brake, and don't throttle up until you feel the car inch forward or until you give it a half second count. 
    This is seen when you go from a full stop *BRAKES ON* position directly to the throttle, and there is a half to one second delay before you start moving. It happens regardless of hill hold settings, launch control, or various other settings. 

    One thing that is evident is that it is caused by a purposeful delay in the clutch engagement by the DSG when the brakes were *just* released (Including the handbrake, tried that). I am pretty sure the DSG waits until the brakes have been released for a specific amount of time before engaging the clutch. If you release the brake and wait until you feel the car inch forward then hit the throttle - you will start right up with no delay. Hill hold may prevent this workaround if you are on an incline, so if its bothersome you may consider disabling it. Have experiences with this? Post them! 

    Incidentally, I believe (my opinion) this is actually a "Feature" - a designed behavior for a DSG, not a bug or unintended effect. Common sense would suggest that if you were stopped at a light, it would be ridiculous for the DSG to be applying partial clutch pressure in the event you might want instant GO - just imagine the excess wear on the expensive clutch packs that would cause. The DSG instead monitors the brakes, and while you are stopped and the brakes on, the clutches have no need to be engaged (No need to cause all that wear). The delay you witness when stomping on the gas from a stopped brake position is likely just the sum of the time it takes for your brakes to release and the clutch to engage, so my guess is there really isn't much you can do to get rid of this designed behavior, just anticipate and work around it using the above tip. My 2 cents! 


    Tip - Increase Throttle Position *Before* a Downshift, Not After. 
    Accelerator position is a major KEY in influencing the alternate gear selection. While there are many, many factors that go into telling the brains of the DSG what gear to switch the alternate gearbox into (And its impossible to get a handle on them all), "Intent" is a huge one. The DSG uses the throttle position to determine if you are thinking of accelerating (queues up a lower gear for performance) or not accelerating / decelerating (Queues up a higher gear for economy) -Seems pretty "Duh" right? If you are wanting to accelerate, you put the pedal down. If you don't want accelerate, you let off the throttle or hold it at minimal. Nobody would argue with that. But what you may not think about is that if you are used to driving a manual, and are now driving a DSG - your habits may *actually confuse* the DSG and make it think you want the opposite of what you are about to do. Here is what I mean. Lets look at a manual transmission driving scenario for downshifting from 3rd to 2nd to accelerate : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Clutch In -> Downshift -> Accelerate / Clutch Out 

    So now lets say you do the same thing in a DSG, so out of habit you do everything but the clutch : 

    Let off Accelerator -> Downshift -> Accelerate 

    If you do this (Which I found is exactly what I did) - This actually gives the DSG the wrong idea. If you are not on the accelerator, it assumes you don't want to accelerate. It assumes you want economy, not performance. So the alternate gearbox had a higher gear (4th) instead of a lower gear (2nd) chosen. Boom. You just caused an 800ms gear change instead of a 200ms one, and during that time you were off the accelerator during a time you could have been on it (You dont have a clutch now, you dont have to let off!) so you didnt even have propulsion the whole time you could have. 

    So what if you broke the habit to let off the accelerator before a shift, and instead pressed the accelerator down *then* changed gears? You're letting the DSG know you want to accelerate - It will have the lower gear ready for you because you are telling it from the pedal position you want performance - not economy. Breaking this single habit was personally a game changer for me - I realized it was simply something left over from 20+ years of pressing in a clutch. Now granted, you cant just expect to be at zero throttle position, hit the gas and downshift and expect a quick change. You have to think ahead, and already have been accelerating by the time you need the downshift. Its a habit change to not try to let off the accelerator before a downshift, or at all if you don't need to - and do the opposite. This takes some discipline, and feels odd at first, but once you get rewarded with a quick pick up - It gets easier. 

    If you can master this, I bet you will start noticing a substantial difference in gear availability. I noticed that I was able to start predicting when I would need the downshift a second ahead, hit the gas, pause, down shift and -Bam-. You end up not losing that second of "no power" driving during the shift due to your reaction time, momentum isn't broken, and you optimize the DSG's ability to help you out. 


    Tip - Avoid downshifting more than 2 gears at once - Manage the gears down one at a time individually. 
    This happens a lot to me, and is the source for most of my personal WTF moments. I am driving in 4th, and find I need to get on it - HARD - to pass someone. So I do what I did in my manual. Shift into 2nd with 2 quick clicks on the paddles and floor it. And what happens? You feel like you hit the engine brakes - the car actually slows down - You hit your head on your steering wheel, and 1.5 seconds later you go into light speed and your neck snaps back in the seat. Ever had that happen??? (Okay maybe I embellished that a little) This is because you told the DSG to do the one thing it cant, and set it up for the worst case scenario. Remember that if you go 2 gears any direction, the dual gearbox cant help you, because the gearbox you are in handles both your current gear and the one you want. So what does it do? I have found that timing has a lot to do with it, and if the transmission detects the gear request with any delay at all between - but Something like this : 

     
    The alternate gearbox had 5th gear queued up instead of 3rd because you didn't have the accelerator down (Doh! Tip on accelerator position above), so it cant take the handoff from the current gearbox.  The clutch on your current gearbox has to disengage to perform the switch to second gear, but cant because the second gearbox isn't ready yet.  At this point Mass chaos ensues. I have personally seen different behavior on what happens next depending on if you have stock software or a custom DSG tune, but both feel close to the same...  On one, it seemed to say screw it, disengaged both clutches, you lose all power, it changes both gearboxes (from 4th to 2nd, and 5th to 3rd) but since they both finish at the same time, it skips the handoff to the alternate gearbox and just re-applies the current gearbox which is now in 2nd (And during that entire time you have no power to the wheels - at all).  With other software I noticed that there was still an 800ms initial delay (with no power, seemingly limited from the ECU not the clutch) as the alternate gearbox changed into 3rd to receive the switch, then the clutch for the alternate gearbox (now in 3rd gear) engaged, then another delay while the first gearbox changed from 4th to 2nd then did a 200ms switch back. This is like a 2 second+ delay. One was smoother yes, but no matter how you slice it, its a WTF moment lasting much longer than it should.  Avoid this by always having the accelerator significantly down before the gear change, and then managing the down shifts one at a time. While this might technically be slower than allowing the DSG to change as fast as it could, I have found it almost always results in a faster transition with a smoother feel and less downtime - and avoids the DSG getting confused and throwing you around. 


    Tip - Be Consistent and Purposeful in Your Throttle Position. 
    The only thing worse than having the alternate gearbox being in the wrong gear is having the alternate gearbox "on its way" to the wrong gear when you need it. This doubles the time of your shift because its got to complete the cycle time to the wrong gear before it can start its journey back to the one you wanted. 

    What will cause this? Treating the accelerator like your first date, and being all over the place. Accelerating hard then backing off only to feather the throttle. This increases the chance you are gonna be sending the alternate gearbox somewhere you don't want it. I tended to do this sometimes, like when you're on a 2 lane road, backing a semi, and looking for an opportunity to pass. If you play with the throttle up and down, don't be surprised when you pull out into your gap and find that your power doesn't kick in for a good second. Try to be mindful of those situations, as it has an effect on the gear availability. Also, realize that pressing in the throttle 5% isn't likely to sway the DSG into thinking you want performance. You will have to commit to a large enough throttle position change to warrant attention. 


    Tip - When Slowing Down, Downshift Accordingly. Don't Wait Until You Need to Re-accelerate to Request a Downshift - from Pelican18TQA4 
    While some other methods described help alleviate any pauses in acceleration, if you're downshifting as you slow, you'll already have the appropriate gear for re-accelerating.  

    I love this observation. Maybe you already do this - Maybe it matched your previous manual driving style. If so, you probably had fewer issues with gear availability when driving the DSG. But if it wasn't, or if you used neutral and coasted on the clutch a lot, or even if you did a little of both for some passenger comfort - what mattered little in manual matters a lot in the DSG. It's just a matter of changing your mindset to stay in a gear, even if it wraps up the RPM's, adopting the engine brake mentality. If you want instant-on performance, ride the gears down, keep the RPM's in your sweet spot as you slow, and you'll not have to convince the DSG anything if you decide to hit it. (Not to mention your brakes will probably LOVE you for it) 
  23. Like
    belfast col got a reaction from Bob in Mercedes A35   
    This gives the A35 4Matic a slight edge over the M140i and S3, which are claimed to accelerate to 62mph in 4.8sec and 5.3sec respectively, in outright straight-line performance. 
     
    Wrong: They're quoting the S3 0-60 with a manual box and not the 4.6 for the DSG. Why can't journos get something like that right??!!
  24. Like
    belfast col reacted to Quicksilver661 in Hello from Bahrain!   
    I've been lurking here for about 3 weeks now and WOW, i am overwhelmed with the amount of useful information available here for new owners like myself; especially the What to check for thread and the tips and tricks thread. So for that, i decided to join and thank you!
     
    My name is Khaled and i am from Bahrain. Had my car for a little over 2 week now and i love it! This is my first VW ever, i remember my dad had a navy MK2 cabriolet at some point; but i was probably 5 at the time lol. Of course it is long gone..
     
    So what is it? It is a 2018 Lapiz Blue fully loaded, GCC spec. so there might be a few differences from the Euro or US spec ones given the heat we live in 🌅.
     
    Only 2 options available at the stealership at the time were:
    2x fully loaded (one on display + one stored) w/ DCC, ACC, 19" spielberg (😭), Digital cockpit w/ nav & 9.2 display, Nappa leather, DSG (not many manuals in this country except by order; unless it is a toyota Hilux lol), Dynaudio... umm can't remember if there is anything else missing - The one i got. 2x lower option (white silver on display + Indium Grey stored) w/ no DCC, no ACC, 18" Cadiz, digital cockpit but no nav in it, the smaller display with the knobs (not sure what its called), Vienna leather, DSG, w/o Dynaudio.  
    I was torn between the Lapiz Blue and the Indium grey, and i had to go with the Blue! Because... my other car i have is blue too lol. Many criticized me for it, but i just love blue, what can i say! That and i thought it was pointless getting a digital dash with no nav in it.
     
    I took a few pics for you guys hopping to have a small peice of Bahrain in there. I'm sorry it was not washed that day 🤦‍♂️. Now if i can only figure out how to upload them 🤔.
     
    Well, thank you for having me and it is a pleasure being here . Also i'm sorry for any bad English as it is my 2nd language.




  25. Like
    belfast col reacted to Kieran in Kieran's Stage 3 7R (524PS/671NM)   
    Plenty more to come haha!
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