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mattipuh

Worth going stage3 or just stage2?

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Hi having a debate whether to go full monty to stage 3 or just to stage2? Car is my daily commuter so would probably be happy with stage 2 performance - nevertheless would get more value of mapping from going directly to stage3, only extra cost would be new turbo.

 

Pros and cons?

 

Considering tte525 - now with jb4 and powervalve 100cell dp and mst 3" Intake, stock ic.

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Hi having a debate whether to go full monty to stage 3 or just to stage2? Car is my daily commuter so would probably be happy with stage 2 performance - nevertheless would get more value of mapping from going directly to stage3, only extra cost would be new turbo.
 
Pros and cons?
 
Considering tte525 - now with jb4 and powervalve 100cell dp and mst 3" Intake, stock ic.



FWIW, a big turbo with fueling and an charge air cooler will set you back probably close to 7-8k. Is it worth it? No one but you can determine that. My car made 340ish awp (dyno sheet)6932a7229cef08489d26620a5c851422.jpg on a uni stage 2 flash and an AWE downpipe. I hope to make close to 500awp with a boss 600, E85 fueling and an aftermarket cooler. For me .... to much is just enough.

Best luck


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3 hours ago, mattipuh said:

 

Hi having a debate whether to go full monty to stage 3 or just to stage2? Car is my daily commuter so would probably be happy with stage 2 performance - nevertheless would get more value of mapping from going directly to stage3, only extra cost would be new turbo.

 

Pros and cons?

 

Considering tte525 - now with jb4 and powervalve 100cell dp and mst 3" Intake, stock ic.

 

 

You would be better getting a decent tune over a tuning box and a full suite of bolt on parts in the first instance and make a decision from there.

 

Stage 3 is a bigger jump from stage 2 than stage 2 is from standard and the financial cost to go to stage 3 from stage 2 is significantly more than it is to go to stage 2 from standard. 

 

If you have the money to spend doing it and the knowledge that it will cost more to run than a stage 2 car, do it.

 

In terms of performance, if measured over a 1/4 mile distance from standing still, expect a 5-10mph gain from standard to tuning box/stage 1, a 1-3 mph gain from stage 1 to stage 2, and a 10+mph gain from stage 2 to stage 3 (all approximate).

 

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UM says to reach the full potential of the TTE525, you'll need port injection.  Also, hope you're not planning on going stage 3 on the stock ic.

 

So, it's going to be more than slapping a bigger turbo on, if you want to optimize your setup.  As stated earlier, only you can determine if the additional cost is worth it.

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Besides the cost of going stage 3, don't you lose some low rev torque by going to a bigger turbo ?  I understand these bigger turbos need more revs to build boost so your useful power delivery is moved higher in the rev band (but there is much more when it does arrive).

 

As others have already said, it all depends on what you like and dislike (and how much you are prepared to pay for it).

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You would be better getting a decent tune over a tuning box and a full suite of bolt on parts in the first instance and make a decision from there.
 
Stage 3 is a bigger jump from stage 2 than stage 2 is from standard and the financial cost to go to stage 3 from stage 2 is significantly more than it is to go to stage 2 from standard. 
 
If you have the money to spend doing it and the knowledge that it will cost more to run than a stage 2 car, do it.
 
In terms of performance, if measured over a 1/4 mile distance from standing still, expect a 5-10mph gain from standard to tuning box/stage 1, a 1-3 mph gain from stage 1 to stage 2, and a 10+mph gain from stage 2 to stage 3 (all approximate).
 

Interesting viewpoints - what specifics are different in maintenance point of view?

Was thinking to run tte525 with less boost targeting BTW 470-490hp meaning less need for ic and less strain for car.

To my understanding tte525 works easier ie it can do more with less boost than stock is38.

Living up north so there's need for ic only if doing one mile runs and maybe 2-3monts in year at max.

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Interesting viewpoints - what specifics are different in maintenance point of view?

Was thinking to run tte525 with less boost targeting BTW 470-490hp meaning less need for ic and less strain for car.

To my understanding tte525 works easier ie it can do more with less boost than stock is38.

Living up north so there's need for ic only if doing one mile runs and maybe 2-3monts in year at max.



I’m curious on your turbo choice... why not efr7163 if you like Borg Warner? I’m no expert but 470-490 whp on a hybrid
with low boost seems like a bit of a stretch. When I was thinking big turbo UM suggested I stay away from hybrids. They said nothing bad about them just that they’ve had better luck with other turbos.


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15 hours ago, mattipuh said:


Interesting viewpoints - what specifics are different in maintenance point of view?

Was thinking to run tte525 with less boost targeting BTW 470-490hp meaning less need for ic and less strain for car.

To my understanding tte525 works easier ie it can do more with less boost than stock is38.

Living up north so there's need for ic only if doing one mile runs and maybe 2-3monts in year at max.

 

Not a view point, I have APR Stage 3+ with a Borg Warner 7163. It is insanely fast compared to standard - it does 136mph terminal speed at the end of the quarter mile from standstill :) 

 

With more power regardless of who adds the power, you need to bank on upgrading clutches, tyres as well as more regular engine/box/ haldex servicing. Replacing “consumables” more regularly is wise if you want it to stay reliable.

 

It will use more fuel - even if mpg is similar on a run, when you boot it, it will use more fuel than standard or stage 2 does. And then there is insurance, tyres etc etc which will end up costing more.

 

And that’s assuming nothing breaks with the car handling loads more power and torque than standard to stage 2 does.

 

Am I reading correctly that you want to fit a hybrid turbo on low boost with the standard intercooler and your hoping for 480whp? 

 

What is it you are looking for specifically buddy? A dyno plot with high numbers, or a faster car? 

 

For what it’s worth I’m up north too, Aberdeen to be specific.

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Who’s recommending you go stage 3 without an IC?

 

If you have the cash stage 3 is great...you won’t regret it...although stage 2 on this platform is so much less expensive and still pretty mental.

 

Also in terms of turbos take a look at the Turbo Technics offerings. VRS Northampton are worth talking to.

 

I have a v4 currently (up for sale next week as I’m going v5) and it’s putting out 530bhp with no issues.

 

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FWIW, a big turbo with fueling and an charge air cooler will set you back probably close to 7-8k. Is it worth it? No one but you can determine that. My car made 340ish awp (dyno sheet)6932a7229cef08489d26620a5c851422.jpg on a uni stage 2 flash and an AWE downpipe. I hope to make close to 500awp with a boss 600, E85 fueling and an aftermarket cooler. For me .... to much is just enough.

Best luck


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I see I forgot to post the big turbo dyno runs.

So is38 uni stage2 awe downpipe on e30

c770137cd6b12f6d63ef723da1809fe7.jpg

GTX30 flex fuel awe downpipe on e30

3cfa7082b2be272da8c6a9dafc4b3e93.jpg

So for me... yeah, it’s worth it


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Don't forget:

For longevity engine build at stage 3

Clutch Packs

Reliable tested kit

Labour + vat

Thats without a proper BBK @ 2k+

Exhaust DP or system 

Upgraded decent suspension

 

Big big money

 

 

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5 hours ago, RJW79 said:

 

 

I have a v4 currently (up for sale next week as I’m going v5) and it’s putting out 530bhp with no issues.

 

 

Also running the V4... can’t fault it! 

If you don’t mind me asking... who/where are you getting the V5 from?

 

 

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Not a view point, I have APR Stage 3+ with a Borg Warner 7163. It is insanely fast compared to standard 136mph terminal speed at the end of the quarter mile from standstill  
 
With more power regardless of who adds the power, you need to bank on upgrading clutches, tyres as well as more regular engine/box/ haldex servicing. Replacing “consumables” more regularly is wise if you want it to stay reliable.
 
It will use more fuel - even if mpg is similar on a run, when you boot it, it will use more fuel than standard or stage 2 does. And then there is insurance, tyres etc etc which will end up costing more.
 
And that’s assuming nothing breaks with the car handling loads more power and torque than standard to stage 2 does.
 
Am I reading correctly that you want to fit a hybrid turbo on low boost with the standard intercooler and your hoping for 480whp? 
 
What is it you are looking for specifically buddy? A dyno plot with high numbers, or a faster car? 
 
For what it’s worth I’m up north too, Aberdeen to be specific.

Was talking crank hp.. No aims for big numbers

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Why couldn't you go stage 3 with less boost and without ic? It is not necessary to always push the envelope especially as car is daily driver not a track whuyra(). Been driving tunedstreet cars and race cars for 10years and can't understand this..

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