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Sad story, but am I missing something here?

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3 hours ago, camelsac2002 said:

That's why the likes of Da'esh individuals have lost their human rights and why there was a. shoot to kill policy with regards to Irish nationalist terrorists. You could expect no mercy from either of those groups and in most cases, individuals from those groups.

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I suppose you could say that individual members of terrorist groups like Da'esh forfeit their human rights by association with an organization that prides itself on showing no mercy.  But this can be a slippery slope.  There are anti-Islamic factions in the US who might apply such thinking to Muslims in general based on misguided interpretations and general misunderstanding of Sharia law.  The sanctity of human rights can be compromised in both unintentional and devious ways.      

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10 hours ago, Raiden said:

 

I was just gonna say that.  I was reading about these gangs and the areas they are from and one is near where I grew up and gang culture was a bit of a problem back in my day but it's a lot worse now.  Most of these kids involved just have no father figure keeping them in check but lucky for me I did and he kept me on the straight and narrow.  Being half west indian myself there is always fiction west indians and people of african origin and this is half the trouble and I think the police do not understand their backgrounds and why there is violence between them.  I remember a guy after one of my mates because my mate rejected his sister and wouldn't go out with her.  The silly cow said my mate slapped her which he didn't so to sort it out they had to arrange a fight and as much as my mate didn't want too because this kid was in a gang he had too otherwise because if he bottled it the gang would catch up with him.  My mate won and thought this was the end of it. But the guy pulls out a knife!!!!  My mates dad was nearby and diffused the situation and as much as he wanted to go to the police he couldn't because again you grass on a gang member they will come after you 

 

So, what is the answer or what do we do? Disclosure, I'm white, but I will say I don't care what colour someone is though I do have issues with what is happening in our society. Some communities appear to have particular problems - black youths in London appear to be highly likely to be stabbed to death in some gang related violence and so on. I understand the reluctance to engage with the Police, past experience makes me the same but when do we take responsibility and exterminate the undesirable behaviour - I think you're alluding to sorting out between interested parties but that can't happen across the board in a country like ours.

 

I think in our considerations we have to exclude the Police as they're regarded as ineffective irrespective of the "community" (we all live together I don't care for segregation based on colour religion or otherwise) you belong to and look at our own local area and start to take back control about what is and isn't acceptable.

 

Sorry for rambling but all of this is deeply disturbing and I don't believe it's helpful to say this kid is innocent just because he's 14 - our expectation is that a 14 year old can't be doing these terrible things so we should be full of regret....the fact that he was and that he wasn't a "little polite boy" should wake us up to the issues we're facing.

 

Well, that's pretty depressing. Soz.

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3 hours ago, Twitch said:

 So what you are saying if he wasn't on the bike they would have still found and stabbed him?

 

 

 

Shouldve just reversed back over him and then waited for the police to eventually show up.

14yrs old and illegally riding with the rest of the evidence would’ve seen them walk clean.

Unless of course they are sending a message.......

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So, what is the answer or what do we do? Disclosure, I'm white, but I will say I don't care what colour someone is though I do have issues with what is happening in our society. Some communities appear to have particular problems - black youths in London appear to be highly likely to be stabbed to death in some gang related violence and so on. I understand the reluctance to engage with the Police, past experience makes me the same but when do we take responsibility and exterminate the undesirable behaviour - I think you're alluding to sorting out between interested parties but that can't happen across the board in a country like ours.
 
I think in our considerations we have to exclude the Police as they're regarded as ineffective irrespective of the "community" (we all live together I don't care for segregation based on colour religion or otherwise) you belong to and look at our own local area and start to take back control about what is and isn't acceptable.
 
Sorry for rambling but all of this is deeply disturbing and I don't believe it's helpful to say this kid is innocent just because he's 14 - our expectation is that a 14 year old can't be doing these terrible things so we should be full of regret....the fact that he was and that he wasn't a "little polite boy" should wake us up to the issues we're facing.
 
Well, that's pretty depressing. Soz.
Personally I think most of them seem to think or have been told at a young age that being black means your at a disadvantage which is not true. Again I think most of these gang members have no father so they have no motivation or guidance to try at life but being a jack the lad is easier. Plus the way they talk as well like talking 'patois' no one can understand them. So how can teachers at school or police relate to them? In these areas where the problems are black men in good jobs etc should try and reach out to these kids. But then your still going to have the issue of West Indians and Africans hating each other which at the end of the day is racism but as it's a minority so it's under the radar. Not only that there's the issue of Africans and West Indian people having issues with the somalian community as well. All this being PC is just not helping the problem and black politicians need address the problem

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When I was 15 ,in December I lived in west Calder in Scotland .My mate and I took my dads car out late one evening while my mum and dad were at a works doo,it had been snowing and basically we parked it in a field.My dad came home and said where is the car,he saw the tracks .He walked 2 miles in the snow and wiped the fingerprints off the car and told us both to not say who was driving.We were not prosecuted because of this but my dad worked out the costs as it was a right  off and we both worked for him every Saturday for a year till we paid it off,he paid us an hourly rate and marked it off till we had paid every penny and he had us doing heavy work like shifting 10 ton of maure with a wheelbarrow and painting fences and the whole of the outside of the farmhouse white in the summer and in the winter we were shovelling snow from all the pensioners houses in the village,this was a an education that you do something silly you pay the price.My dad is now 93 my best mate and I are in our 50s and when he phones my dad always says to remind him of this.My dad saved us both that night we have families and good jobs and never did anything illegal after it with criminal records it would have been a different life for us both,I guess what I am saying is kids do stupid things and make mistakes and it can be a one off thing that goes horribly wrong does not make you a bad person just a stupid one

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It was difficult to tell my story it is not something I share because even now I am ashamed of it .I have done tours in Ireland in the 80s and 90s and also worked for the probation service and through the years have learnt that not all homeless are alcoholics or drug users,not all groups of kids on street corners are up to no good .I am aware of the decline of discipline in our kids,the increase in violent crime and the drug problems that are everywhere but we all must be careful not to judge everyone in these .I believe we should bring back national service to Instill structure,discipline and morals to our young people and teach them to respect themselves and others and if possible give them skills to progress in life but this would be a perfect world and sadly this is not 

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It was difficult to tell my story it is not something I share because even now I am ashamed of it .I have done tours in Ireland in the 80s and 90s and also worked for the probation service and through the years have learnt that not all homeless are alcoholics or drug users,not all groups of kids on street corners are up to no good .I am aware of the decline of discipline in our kids,the increase in violent crime and the drug problems that are everywhere but we all must be careful not to judge everyone in these .I believe we should bring back national service to Instill structure,discipline and morals to our young people and teach them to respect themselves and others and if possible give them skills to progress in life but this would be a perfect world and sadly this is not 
I agree to a point, everyone and every child is different. Given the same circumstances one child will get sucked in to gang culture and another will not, sometimes it is just down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time or making the wrong friend.
National service could solve some problems and cause others imo. When I was a kid I had no idea about gangs or crime but nowadays anyone can access stuff on the internet or chat to others and get coerced in to all sorts of beliefs be it religious, political or gang related.

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As sad as someone young using their life is, as long as they keep it gang on gang I don't really care. It's when it spills over and starts effecting innocents that haven't chosen to take that path that I'll be bothered. 

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20 hours ago, tweaked9107 said:

As sad as someone young using their life is, as long as they keep it gang on gang I don't really care. It's when it spills over and starts effecting innocents that haven't chosen to take that path that I'll be bothered. 

 

You've seen the moped gangs attacking motorbike couriers? You've seen the gangs robbing jewellers in broad daylight? You've seen the gangs running drugs businesses? You've seen the gangs robbing (with increasing violence) keys from people/homes for cars?

 

How many more things do they need to be doing before we class it as affecting innocents? Just because at the current time they are not stabbing randoms to death doesn't mean we shouldn't deal with them and at least attempt to tackle the problem (however fanciful that might seem).

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On 14/01/2019 at 17:28, phazer said:

 

You've seen the moped gangs attacking motorbike couriers? You've seen the gangs robbing jewellers in broad daylight? You've seen the gangs running drugs businesses? You've seen the gangs robbing (with increasing violence) keys from people/homes for cars?

 

How many more things do they need to be doing before we class it as affecting innocents? Just because at the current time they are not stabbing randoms to death doesn't mean we shouldn't deal with them and at least attempt to tackle the problem (however fanciful that might seem).

 

Apologies, my wording towards the end should of read "that I become bothered." As in this story doesn't really effect/bother me as much as the ones involving innocent by-standers/victims. 

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2 hours ago, tweaked9107 said:

 

Apologies, my wording towards the end should of read "that I become bothered." As in this story doesn't really effect/bother me as much as the ones involving innocent by-standers/victims. 

 

No need to apologise, however gangs having something worth stabbing each other over normally means innocent people have been involved somewhere ;)

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