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Dogbone insert / dogbone mount kit... difference?


dbrown1991
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I'm looking at doing the dogbone mount upgrade with powerflex. 

 

What is the difference between the following

 

- Powerflex Lower Hybrid Dogbone Mount Kit – PFF85-831/PFF85-833

 

https://progressiveparts.com/product/powerflex-lower-hybrid-dogbone-mount-kit-pff85-831-pff85-833

 

And 

 

Powerflex Lower Dogbone Mount Insert Kit MQB Vehicles – PFF85-830/PFF85-832

https://progressiveparts.com/product/powerflex-lower-dogbone-mount-insert-kit-mqb-vehicles-pff85-830-pff85-832

 

Which one do I need to buy or what do people recommend? 

 

TIA

 

Dave 

 

 

 

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I'll let you know when I have mine fitted. Unfortunately, because I'm in no rush to have the mount insert (and other things) fitted, I'm quite happy to sit out the winter and wait for spring.

I was advised the hybrid is a half way type mount, that is a compromise between rigidity and comfort in terms of nvh

Depending on what type of insert you have, type1/type2, I'd probably look at the latter one on your list.

If you do get one before i get a chance to report back, let me know your results.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Had it fitted.

I can feel the difference immediately, especially when starting the engine. More vibration is now transmitted to the cabin. Has a more direct feel to the way engine transmits power. It is subtle and not as bad as some would have you think. Ive still not launched the car yet so I wouldn't be able to give any comparison on before vs after for that.

It was easy to fit too, took about 10 mins.

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I’ve got the Revo dog bone mount insert. The garage that fitted it said there will be some initial NVH but in their experience, it will stop within the first 100 miles….sure enough it did.
 

It’s made a noticeable difference under hard acceleration.  I’d thoroughly recommend the Revo variant. 

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On 08/02/2022 at 23:03, Penguin said:

I’ve got the Revo dog bone mount insert. The garage that fitted it said there will be some initial NVH but in their experience, it will stop within the first 100 miles….sure enough it did.
 

It’s made a noticeable difference under hard acceleration.  I’d thoroughly recommend the Revo variant. 

I haven't driven mine more than 100 miles yet, but tbh, it wouldn't be an issue if mine didn't settle down as yours has as its not that bad. Other inserts may as you say, get better over time with regards NVH, but I'm sure i wouldn't need it to be better, and enjoy the additional feedback it provides.

 

I have other stuff getting fitted currently, such as both ARB's, the handling bushes pack and the subframe insert kit. Hopefully it will all add up to a much better experience.

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On 08/02/2022 at 23:03, Penguin said:

I’ve got the Revo dog bone mount insert. The garage that fitted it said there will be some initial NVH but in their experience, it will stop within the first 100 miles….sure enough it did.
 

It’s made a noticeable difference under hard acceleration.  I’d thoroughly recommend the Revo variant. 



This is the one I'm going for too 👍 A friend has the full set of Revo engine mounts on his stg2 TCR & said the same, after a 100 or so miles the harshness subsides.

TBH I should have had it fitted whilst it was getting the stg2 upgrades but some reason I didn't 🤦‍♂️

I had a Powerflex one in my stg2 Scirocco & it felt like I was driving a V8 Nascar the vibrations were so harsh



 

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1 minute ago, Jace said:



This is the one I'm going for too 👍 A friend has the full set of Revo engine mounts on his stg2 TCR & said the same, after a 100 or so miles the harshness subsides.

TBH I should have had it fitted whilst it was getting the stg2 upgrades but some reason I didn't 🤦‍♂️

I had a Powerflex one in my stg2 Scirocco & it felt like I was driving a V8 Nascar the vibrations were so harsh



 

TBH, the only time I felt any vibration was when engaging reverse and the initial movement when reversing. It wasn’t exactly harsh, just noticeable compared to how it felt pre-fitting. 

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  • 3 months later...

I’m starting to become tempted to give one of these a go. I was adamant I didn’t want to, especially having done it and removed it on a previous clio which just caused the whole cabin to vibrate ridiculously as well as make it sound like a small jet, which definitely didn’t go away over the next bunch of miles - once bitten and all that. 
 

I’m thinking about ordering a powerflex diesel version as it’s 65A durometer rating. The yellow is 70A so it’s not a huge difference, and those are softer than say the ECS version at 75A which is meant to be reduced NVH. 

No idea about the hardness of the Revo version sadly as I prefer the design. 

 

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Decided to try out the yellow powerflex hybrid type. 
 

i did consider the red diesel insert but then considered that with time it might get chewed up a little easier than one the follows the revo style one above, and there is no red hybrid type. 
 

Hope I don’t get stuck under the car for too long trying to remove the bush!

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On 15/06/2022 at 20:21, sibbers said:

Decided to try out the yellow powerflex hybrid type. 
 

i did consider the red diesel insert but then considered that with time it might get chewed up a little easier than one the follows the revo style one above, and there is no red hybrid type. 
 

Hope I don’t get stuck under the car for too long trying to remove the bush!

Give it a try

The good thing about the Powerflex ones is they are just an insert, so if not to your liking, can be removed.

Remember safety first if working under the car!

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Yeah I think you were right in the other thread where I was asking about pull away slop. I have however selected the hybrid puck that is a little harder to reverse as it requires destruction of the lower part of the mount - hopefully simple enough though, I’m planning on cutting a small notch with a saw blade then collapsing the plastic outer part before pushing the new bush in. 
 

Most jobs always throw me a curveball so we will see. I’m expecting NVH to cause immediate regret and then hoping I’ll get over it and the wife won’t hate whatever it was that did. By the time I’ve given it a full tanks worth of driving I can decide if I need to buy the OEM part and roll back to original but being a manual I’m really hoping that clutch control removes some of the load that causes vibrations in reverse and that it doesn’t sound like I’ve installed a jet engine. 
 

Only one way to really know for sure. 🙂

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On 15/06/2022 at 08:42, sibbers said:



No idea about the hardness of the Revo version sadly as I prefer the design. 

 


I have this as previously stated & now almost 5 months later I wouldn't really know I have it fitted. I'm pretty sure if you dropped them a msg they would tell you its hardness.

My missus hasn't complained about it making the car feel any different either, which is always a good result 😉

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Well, it is done and the results were not what I expected at all.

 

From a NVH perspective it's completely fine to me. I can tell there is more vibration, but it's really very minor. Sat on the drive after fitting and not having moved at all, I could see some minor vibration in the rear view and feel it through the wheel but once I drove away I don't think I saw the rear view wobble again, and the wheel vibration is so minor that its fine - this being the worst aspects, as aside from idling or bring the clutch up in reverse it really doesn't feel any different to OEM.

 

My old Clio RS 200 Cup had more vibrations without any mods at all and the equivalent bush is intolerable. Nothing like that at all - to me, it still feels like a Golf. I think the fact I have manual gears means I avoid a lot of the NVH others must complain about.

 

I fitted the Powerflex PFF85-831 hybrid puck insert which replaces the lower part of the bush (like the Revo type) and inserts into the top part. Fitting was pretty easy and I only had to undo one 21mm bolt, which was the main one - no need to undo the dogbone or the two bolts that hold it to the transmission case. The 21mm impact sockets I have don't fit into the powerflex collar, so if you're doing this then you may need to make sure you have a regular size one for refitting. I had a 13/16 imperial socket that did the job.

 

I used a drywall saw to cut into the lower part of the bush - the outer part is plastic, so I did two small cuts and then used a screwdriver to lever it out - wasn't hard at all. It's always a concern to destroy a bush that's attached to the car, but I guess being plastic it just lets go really easily. I had planned on using a hacksaw blade but it wasn't the nearest thing and what I was doing was working.

 

I'm very happy I didn't go for the 65A diesel insert. I think that 70A yellow insert is the sweet spot for addressing the engine movement on pull away and still keeping it sensible. Honestly it still has more movement than I expected so I can see why people choose to go for harder, and the young me would be ordering that part right away but I know what it's like to modify cars so much that you don't want them as daily drivers anymore.

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On 21/06/2022 at 15:24, sibbers said:

Well, it is done and the results were not what I expected at all.

 

From a NVH perspective it's completely fine to me. I can tell there is more vibration, but it's really very minor. Sat on the drive after fitting and not having moved at all, I could see some minor vibration in the rear view and feel it through the wheel but once I drove away I don't think I saw the rear view wobble again, and the wheel vibration is so minor that its fine - this being the worst aspects, as aside from idling or bring the clutch up in reverse it really doesn't feel any different to OEM.

 

My old Clio RS 200 Cup had more vibrations without any mods at all and the equivalent bush is intolerable. Nothing like that at all - to me, it still feels like a Golf. I think the fact I have manual gears means I avoid a lot of the NVH others must complain about.

 

I fitted the Powerflex PFF85-831 hybrid puck insert which replaces the lower part of the bush (like the Revo type) and inserts into the top part. Fitting was pretty easy and I only had to undo one 21mm bolt, which was the main one - no need to undo the dogbone or the two bolts that hold it to the transmission case. The 21mm impact sockets I have don't fit into the powerflex collar, so if you're doing this then you may need to make sure you have a regular size one for refitting. I had a 13/16 imperial socket that did the job.

 

I used a drywall saw to cut into the lower part of the bush - the outer part is plastic, so I did two small cuts and then used a screwdriver to lever it out - wasn't hard at all. It's always a concern to destroy a bush that's attached to the car, but I guess being plastic it just lets go really easily. I had planned on using a hacksaw blade but it wasn't the nearest thing and what I was doing was working.

 

I'm very happy I didn't go for the 65A diesel insert. I think that 70A yellow insert is the sweet spot for addressing the engine movement on pull away and still keeping it sensible. Honestly it still has more movement than I expected so I can see why people choose to go for harder, and the young me would be ordering that part right away but I know what it's like to modify cars so much that you don't want them as daily drivers anymore.

Glad its worked out for you at the same time as reducing some of the engine slop that occurs.

 

As a stock car, the R is the perfect daily driver, and I suspect that's what VW had in mind when they designed it. The fact is, most people don't want a car that's too noisy, and harsh to drive on the street, which is very strange because its supposed to be the very best performance hatch VW offer. It's the R. isn't it meant to stand for Racing?

 

While I completely understand why they have made the R relatively soft in stock form, personally I think the factory or the team responsible should have envisioned the R as being equivalent or better as what Ford did for the Focus RS, being a hardcore version without many compromises, leaving the ST model (much like the GTi) to fulfil the needs of customers wanting decent performance while having a larger degree of comfort and daily driver feel.

 

This forum has plenty of examples of modified cars that have been completed subtly, and then some that have been heavily modified for a specific purpose. It's just a shame we have to go to these lengths and spend inordinate amounts of money making them do what they are easily capable of.  What stops the factory doing so? Cost.

 

The amount of money the R would would be priced at if it came with some of the below as standard would be a fair bit higher...

- decent set of coilovers,

- two piece brake discs with 4-6 pot Brembo or AP racing callipers,

- boot and engine bay strut braces, and firmer bushes kit all round

- higher margin components, like oil cooler and intercooler. 

This is all without considering anything related to the engine or what's bolted to it

 

If you were to take a standard R on track, it doesn't do that well in comparison, due to how soft it is, the amount of roll you get in corners and the generic typical understeer.

 

One final thought, if the factory were to fit these parts and rightly charge the extra for them, i bet the car would still be a darn sight cheaper than what it ends up costing us to retrofit them afterwards.

 

 

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