Pro subscription renewal price

[fastandy]

Wow, went to use my obdeleven to change an adaption. Hadn't used it in 6 months or more, other than to scan.

 

My Pro sub expired 8 March, 2 days ago.  doh. But renewal in app was coming up at £56 I thought you're joking... 

 

Came back inside, looked directly at obdeleven web pages and it's gone up to euro 49.99 (from 24.99) a year ago.

 

I'm now doubly annoyed I missed buying the Pro version with the lifetime subscription by only a month or so. I seem to have perfect timing for price rises...

 

I like obdeleven, but 50 euro per year will make me think again for vcds possibly just using obdeleven as a mobile scan tool.

 

If I want to do adaptions or coding I can put up with plugging the lappie in. I also find there's a smattering of basic settings and adaptions that just don't work in obdekeven another reason I'll consider vcds. Although, it was a lot friendlier without vin limits! 

 

 

 

[AHG]

I don’t think you get the SFD unlock in VCDS

(heard they pay VW for it, hence the price hike)

 

Note:

don’t do the in-app purchase

buy on their website and type in the code

they didn’t adapt their price

do with store surcharge (Android/Apple)

it cost 25% more

 

For 4.2€ per month (3.7£)

I want to be free to whip it out and code 

(AC circulation is my next one)

[dv52]

On 11/03/2023 at 08:25, AHG said:

I don’t think you get the SFD unlock in VCDS

(heard they pay VW for it, hence the price hike)

Yes, you are correct!!

 

I'm not sure whether moderators will allow this response to remain, but it's worth a try (I think)!😉

 

IMHO, Ross-Tech's entire approach to SFD has been commercially curious in the extreme!!

 

Clearly the absence of a solution to the new protocol has made Ross-Tech's (excellent) suite of products unusable on ALL MQB-evo platform cars (for the present time) - and on ALL future VAG vehicles!

 

So, for ANY third-party manufacturer of diagnostic products that target VAG cars, SFD is fundamentally an existential matter in the future commercial viability of the company!

 

Moreover,  when asked multiple times in the Ross-Tech forum about a VCDS solution, the corporate response has been a deafening silence!! And whilst competitors (like OBD11 and others) have successfully negotiated a commercial solution with VAG, Ross-Tech has failed to progress beyond the denial phase in the change process (at least from a public knowledge perspective).

 

In this deafening silence, users in the non-professional market-sector have suggested a work-around; buy OBD11 to generate the SFD token and then transfer this token to VCDS. Clearly this is an unsustainable solution to VCDS's failure!!

 

Anyhow, that was then - it now appears that Ross-Tech's glacial pace in responding to SFD has progressed to the stage where Uwe Ross is now prepared to release a few words to the great-unwashed users that commercially support of his business!

 

This from Uwe - which was posted last Thursday (see HERE) :

".........we [Ross-Tech] are working with VW and expect to have SFD available too. I can't promise a date when it will be rolled out because there are some very high hoops that we must still jump through, but I can say that we've signed a contract and paid them a princely sum already."
 

So - at least some progress towards VCDS solution to SFD. However, other than sharing "the princely sum already" paid to VAG, the clear message to users is - don't hold your breath for  VCDS solution any time soon!!

 

Again, maybe this post is too controversial to remain - if so, my apology to moderators!!

 

Don

[Booth11]

@dv52  Your post is fine. 👍

[AHG]

It seems that of VCDS will have SFD

they will start charging for it

(businesses don’t spend money

without prospective revenue stream)

 

So, that means, pay OBDeleven and enjoy it.

I do think it is a better product for non-pros

and nicer to use across platforms

 

You don’t have to do it

but nothing else makes sense IMO

[dv52]

1 hour ago, AHG said:

It seems that of VCDS will have SFD

they will start charging for it

(businesses don’t spend money

without prospective revenue stream)

 

So, that means, pay OBDeleven and enjoy it.

I do think it is a better product for non-pros

and nicer to use across platforms

 

You don’t have to do it

but nothing else makes sense IMO

 

@AHG: Sage words indeed- I agree 101%

 

BUT (and there is always a "but"), Mr Ross has a much more fundamental problem with making VCDS compliant with SFD - which does not apply to OBD11.

 

Compare the 2 x competing devices and consider their underpinning designs. OBD11 is the new-boy on the block and the owner (VOLTAS IT) has had the benefit of learning from VCDS's short-comings

 

First: OBD11 has solved the pirate/clone threat by hiding their valuable IP behind the corporate fire-wall of their central servers! 

On the other hand and despite attempts to shore-up their security, VCDS still makes their entire IP freely available to all and sundry - that's why even the latest VCDS release version continues to be thieved by pirates!

 

Second: OBD11 closely interacts with each user, every time that the software connects to the dongle. The design of OBD11 is fundamentally based on a constant stream of communications between each user and the mother-ship. This design enables VOTAS IT to easily comply with some of the VAG restrictions for SFD authorization (i.e the VAG agreement has maximum user numbers and maximum data flow rates -at any one time)

On the other hand, VCDS's design is steeped in 20th century thinking. Yes, Ross-Tech has continued to update their software, but the underlying architecture of their products is outdated (IMHO, of course).

 

VCDS-mobile aside (this is a very small part of VCDS), the only interaction between the mother-ship and VCDS users is when they update the software version. ALL VCDS sessions by users are completely independent of Ross-Tech. This means that when Ross-Tech needs to comply with the same SFD agreement terms as VAG requires for other competitors, there will be a fundamental mismatch  with VCDS's system architecture (I think).

 

Alas, I suspect for Ross-Tech to meet the terms of the SFD agreement - it will necessitate a far deeper (read "a more expensive") change to their business model ( I think)

 

For OBD11, the SFD solution was a simple (albeit not inexpensive) add-on to their existing IT architecture. I'm not at all convinced that the same will apply for the system topology that Ross-Tech currently uses!!

 

And you are also 101% correct in reminding us that the shareholder (Uwe Ross, I assume) will be expecting a commercial rate of return on the funds expended to implement the SFD solution. Of course there is only one way to achieve this (reasonable) expectation - increase the price of the  product (either the cost of buying  and/or the cost of using VCDS)!

 

Anyhow, ALL of my diatribe above is supposition  - time will tell!😉

 

Don

[fastandy]

I've got to go and look up what SFD is! After that maybe I'll have something more relevant to add.

 

Have you responders ever got frustrated with certain adaptions or basic settings that just don't seem to complete with OBDeleven? I'm sure I have. But trying to dredge the memory bank sump to remember them now.. it annoyed me at the time and when I posted there were other outside forum references to the functions not completing on obdeleven whereas vcds would do successfully... 

 

Edit. OK caught up now. Coding firewall requiring token Id. Bit of a dead end road for vcds if they don't get it sorted but for me, still being on a my16 car, it could be another 2 or 3 years before the lack of that support affected me. 

 

Surprised it hasn't hit the 2nd hand value of the v2 cables yet as they're limited future use. I guess it will hit second hand values eventually unless sfd can be added but by sounds of it, it may not be a retro addition to existing vcds cable interfaces!! 

 

Thanks for all the replies. Knew nothing of SFD..

 

 

https://m.gendan.co.uk/help/6-VCDS:-SFD-Diagnostic-Firewall/

 

 

[AHG]

16 hours ago, dv52 said:

you are also 101% correct

 

Got to love that extra 1% 😉

[dv52]

7 hours ago, fastandy said:

I've got to go and look up what SFD is! After that maybe I'll have something more relevant to add...................

.................................................................................................................................................................

Edit. OK caught up now. Coding firewall requiring token Id. Bit of a dead end road for vcds if they don't get it sorted but for me, still being on a my16 car, it could be another 2 or 3 years before the lack of that support affected me. 

 

Surprised it hasn't hit the 2nd hand value of the v2 cables yet as they're limited future use. I guess it will hit second hand values eventually unless sfd can be added but by sounds of it, it may not be a retro addition to existing vcds cable interfaces!! 

 

Thanks for all the replies. Knew nothing of SFD..

 

 

https://m.gendan.co.uk/help/6-VCDS:-SFD-Diagnostic-Firewall/

 

 

 

@fastandy: my apology, I sometimes make assumptions that are entirely inappropriate!! I should have added an introductory SFD preface to my mental musings above.

 

Way back in early 2020, a few interested folk started dialogue about SFD which you can read on the Ross-Tech forum HERE - I initiated a similar discussion on the OBD11 forum about the same time - read HERE

 

So -both VCDS and OBD11 were in the same starting position in respect of the need to accommodate SFD.

 

In the intervening 3 years, It's interesting to compare how the 2 x leading market contenders in the third-party diagnostic-device market have responded to this existential threat to their businesses.

 

OBD11 announced their real-time SFD solution on Sept 2021. By "real-time solution", I mean that OBD11 have been able to negotiate a commercial agreement with VAG, and OBD11 have managed to modify their operating platform so that ANY (repeat "any") user can deal with the new protection protocol.

 

Importantly, the OBD11 solution is totally self-contained (emphasis on "self contained") - no other device is needed to open the SFD locks.

 

This is in contrast with the Ross-Tech response - which has been to provide a "quasi" SFD solution that is targeted ONLY for those users that can get a TOKEN - by other means. Initially, "by other means" meant that VCDS users needed a separate GEKO account with VAG to generate the TOKEN. GEKO accounts are only really suitable to the professional market sector. After the release of the OBD11 solution, VCDS users can thieve a TOKEN using OBD11 - but this means owning/having-access-to the 2 x devices (so, not a real VCDS solution)

 

As I have said, Ross-Tech's answer to SFD for the enthusiast market-sector has been "commercially curious in the extreme" and even with Uwe's most recent response (see my link above), it remains so. As Uwe has confirmed in his latest musings and remembering that SFD discussion started on the VCDS forum 3 years ago - Ross-Tech hasn't even managed to negotiate a commercial agreement with VAG. And if my reading of Uwe's words is correct, it appears that these negotiations are still at a very preliminary stage - extraordinary!!

 

From employee responses on the Ross-Tech forum, it's clear that the commercial relationship with VAG has had a checkered past - perhaps this contributes to the lack of a SFD solution (I'm guessing, of course). 

 

I'm very likely to be wrong (I hope that I am wrong) - but from the outside looking-in, it almost appears as if the plight of VCDS enthusiast users has a low priority - which is odd because I suspect that their enthusiast market sector is not insubstantial!!

 

Again - all very curious indeed!!

 

Don

PS: more SFD information HERE

[dv52]

7 hours ago, fastandy said:

Have you responders ever got frustrated with certain adaptions or basic settings that just don't seem to complete with OBDeleven? I'm sure I have. But trying to dredge the memory bank sump to remember them now.. it annoyed me at the time and when I posted there were other outside forum references to the functions not completing on obdeleven whereas vcds would do successfully...

@fastandy: If I understand your words correctly (English is my second language - so likely I'm mistaken 😉) - we are dealing with a situation where a coding function has worked with VCDS and the same coding function hasn't worked with OBD11.

 

First, it's important to acknowledge that forums like this are a very bad medium for making diagnostic conclusion. The other important admission is that anything is possible when discussing these matters

 

Whist I have been critical of Ross-Tech in my previous replies, at an holistic level - I consider both VCDS and OBD11 to be on a par from a technical perceptive (albeit, each has it's own advantages/disadvantages).  Therefore, I start by assuming that both VCDS and OBD11 are equally capable of interacting with the suite of modules in the car.

 

So - let's look at the differences between how VCDS and OBD11 do stuff!

 

I'm not sure which particular VCDS device you use - I suspect that it might be a cable based product (maybe)

 

As I have said previously, a "normal" VCDS session is completely independent of the Ross-Tech mother-ship. The software for VCDS and more importantly, the supporting database for the car is resident on your laptop. This means that the communication boundaries for a VCDS session is extremely limited to the local workshop/garage

 

OBD11 does stuff very differently!! In contrast, an OBD11 session is intimately tied to communication with the mother-ship. Apart from the initiating software, the majority of the OBD11's operating platform and ALL of the supporting database for the car lives behind the firewall of VOLTIS's central servers in Lithuania. This means that the quality of the ISP-link/mobile-phone service  at the place of use is critical to a successful OBD11 session. And of course, the quality of the Bluetooth is equally important.

 

Again with the 2 x caveats in my opening remarks - it's often my experience that when I'm forced to use VCDS , invariably the underlying problem is a shitty/marginal comms connection with either my ISP, or my mobile-phone data provider!

 

Bottom line - both VCDS and OBD11 has its own, individual idiosyncrasies!!

 

Don

 

[fastandy]

15 hours ago, dv52 said:

@fastandy: If I understand your words correctly (English is my second language - so likely I'm mistaken 😉) - we are dealing with a situation where a coding function has worked with VCDS and the same coding function hasn't worked with OBD11.

 

First, it's important to acknowledge that forums like this are a very bad medium for making diagnostic conclusion. The other important admission is that anything is possible when discussing these matters

 

Whist I have been critical of Ross-Tech in my previous replies, at an holistic level - I consider both VCDS and OBD11 to be on a par from a technical perceptive (albeit, each has it's own advantages/disadvantages).  Therefore, I start by assuming that both VCDS and OBD11 are equally capable of interacting with the suite of modules in the car.

 

So - let's look at the differences between how VCDS and OBD11 do stuff!

 

I'm not sure which particular VCDS device you use - I suspect that it might be a cable based product (maybe)

 

As I have said previously, a "normal" VCDS session is completely independent of the Ross-Tech mother-ship. The software for VCDS and more importantly, the supporting database for the car is resident on your laptop. This means that the communication boundaries for a VCDS session is extremely limited to the local workshop/garage

 

OBD11 does stuff very differently!! In contrast, an OBD11 session is intimately tied to communication with the mother-ship. Apart from the initiating software, the majority of the OBD11's operating platform and ALL of the supporting database for the car lives behind the firewall of VOLTIS's central servers in Lithuania. This means that the quality of the ISP-link/mobile-phone service  at the place of use is critical to a successful OBD11 session. And of course, the quality of the Bluetooth is equally important.

 

Again with the 2 x caveats in my opening remarks - it's often my experience that when I'm forced to use VCDS , invariably the underlying problem is a shitty/marginal comms connection with either my ISP, or my mobile-phone data provider!

 

Bottom line - both VCDS and OBD11 has its own, individual idiosyncrasies!!

 

Don

 

Yes, thanks. 

 

Vcds was a hex-net cable.

 

I'm fairly sure it was the sequence of dsg adaptions, synchro points, clutch adaption etc.

 

I was going to reprove it before posting but then I remembered my Pro subscription is expired. 

 

Would of been tried with my phone in car on drive. So 1m bluetooth from obd dongle and good WiFi  a router resides in front room near to window.

 

Thanks for your reply. 

 

[fastandy]

On 12/03/2023 at 22:00, dv52 said:

 

@fastandy: my apology, I sometimes make assumptions that are entirely inappropriate!! I should have added an introductory SFD preface to my mental musings above.

 

Way back in early 2020, a few interested folk started dialogue about SFD which you can read on the Ross-Tech forum HERE - I initiated a similar discussion on the OBD11 forum about the same time - read HERE

 

So -both VCDS and OBD11 were in the same starting position in respect of the need to accommodate SFD.

 

In the intervening 3 years, It's interesting to compare how the 2 x leading market contenders in the third-party diagnostic-device market have responded to this existential threat to their businesses.

 

OBD11 announced their real-time SFD solution on Sept 2021. By "real-time solution", I mean that OBD11 have been able to negotiate a commercial agreement with VAG, and OBD11 have managed to modify their operating platform so that ANY (repeat "any") user can deal with the new protection protocol.

 

Importantly, the OBD11 solution is totally self-contained (emphasis on "self contained") - no other device is needed to open the SFD locks.

 

This is in contrast with the Ross-Tech response - which has been to provide a "quasi" SFD solution that is targeted ONLY for those users that can get a TOKEN - by other means. Initially, "by other means" meant that VCDS users needed a separate GEKO account with VAG to generate the TOKEN. GEKO accounts are only really suitable to the professional market sector. After the release of the OBD11 solution, VCDS users can thieve a TOKEN using OBD11 - but this means owning/having-access-to the 2 x devices (so, not a real VCDS solution)

 

As I have said, Ross-Tech's answer to SFD for the enthusiast market-sector has been "commercially curious in the extreme" and even with Uwe's most recent response (see my link above), it remains so. As Uwe has confirmed in his latest musings and remembering that SFD discussion started on the VCDS forum 3 years ago - Ross-Tech hasn't even managed to negotiate a commercial agreement with VAG. And if my reading of Uwe's words is correct, it appears that these negotiations are still at a very preliminary stage - extraordinary!!

 

From employee responses on the Ross-Tech forum, it's clear that the commercial relationship with VAG has had a checkered past - perhaps this contributes to the lack of a SFD solution (I'm guessing, of course). 

 

I'm very likely to be wrong (I hope that I am wrong) - but from the outside looking-in, it almost appears as if the plight of VCDS enthusiast users has a low priority - which is odd because I suspect that their enthusiast market sector is not insubstantial!!

 

Again - all very curious indeed!!

 

Don

PS: more SFD information HERE

Yes. Thanks. Great info.

 

I'm just a bit miffed as if they're expecting all the legacy user who have older cars and who don't benefit from SFD compatibility to fund the development or commercial licensing edit: OUTPAYMENTS, to VW for SFD it feels a bit unbalanced. If that is a key contributor to doubling the annual pro sub. 

 

For some people - they won't notice and continue. For me I will probably end up paying a sub when I need it but I may get away with only renewing once every 18 months or 24 months. And their revenue take from price sensitive users not getting any benefit from SFD may actually decrease within that subset.