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Will The Golf R Really Have 400 Horsepower?


belfast col

In an interview with AutoExpress, VW’s Sales and Marketing Boss, Jurgen Stackmann, said, “The R brand is going extreme. The role of R is that it can go beyond the rational; nobody needs a compact car with 400bhp, but is there a place [for it?]. Certainly, and that’s the turf of R.”

 

Those are pretty bold words, and the craziest part is that the next-gen Golf R is expected to use the same 2.0-liter, turbocharged, four-banger under the hood now. It may be massaged to deliver a little more power, but the engine is only capable of handling so much reliably. A such, the Golf R will probably benefit from the 48-Volt mild hybrid system that VW recently promised to roll out across the whole line. This will, however, mean that the Golf R might not deliver that kind of power all of the time.

 

See, that mild-hybrid system has a small battery system and only delivers a power boost for a short period of time. Unless VW is willing to (or finds a way to) tune the current engine to 400 ponies, engineer a new four-banger that’s more powerful than any other, or come up with a way to deliver a constant power boost, the 400-horsepower specification will be a part-time thing.

 

 

Stackmann also said that it will be more expressive, which probably means it’ll take on its most aggressive look yet. Of course, the trade-off is probably going to be an increase in price as expressed by this quote:
“With a little more expressive design, R can go beyond the rational side of things. It [the R brand] can find its place in a different league of pure performance, and there’s a space where customers are willing to pay a significant amount of money.”

 

 

Final Thoughts

 

One part of me is extremely excited to hear this. I’m a big fan of the Golf R, and it’s always sucked that it delivered subpar performance compared to the competition. But, I’m concerned about that mild-hybrid system and just how long the next Golf R will be able to deliver that extra boost in performance. After all, that small battery and temporary boost will be good for quick acceleration here and there but will it be able to repeat performance time after time or will the Golf R fail to deliver a good portion of the time?

 

 

I highly doubt that Volkswagen is capable of tuning the 2.0-liter in the current model to deliver that much power. It may be able to deliver 340 horsepower or so, but anything beyond that would push the limits of its engineering. The other big problem here is that VW’s sales and marketing boss is about to make the same mistake they did with the Touareg and step outside of their place in the world: “there’s a space where customers are willing to pay a significant amount of money.”

This should be obvious, but that’s exactly why the Touareg failed. VW tried to step out of the affordable car market where it belongs and into the luxury segment. It didn’t work out so well, and that’s why the Touareg isn’t sold in the U.S. anymore. The Golf R is already priced at about $40,000, which means VW is going to probably going to try to pass it off as a $50,000 hatchback. VW has always had a problem with thinking it’s more upscale than it is, and now the Golf R is about to get put through the ringer too.

 

 

It’s certainly interesting to see how this is going to turn out.

 

Article from TopSpeed

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Edited by belfast col



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It will probably be around 350....340-350 from engine, 10 or so from the starter motor like mild hybrid drive.

 

The electric motor will not produce very much, this is a starter motor like mild hybrid system, it's main purpose is to allow extended coasting, more start stop with instant power on for restart....and hence get MPG up (and emissions down).

 

The motor is a BAS system (Belt alternator starter) - it will replace the alternator, starter and will also be a generator. Its a low power 48v system as per on the new Audi A8. Looking at manufacturers such as continental who produce these systems and will be supplying VW, they have a peak output of 15kw for short periods which is only 20HP, start power is a low as 5HP.

 

To quote a recent article on motor1.com...

 

'Getting back to the mild hybrid system, VW mentions it will give the new Golf an electric boost upon startup by providing extra torque once the driver fires up the engine. The generator’s power is channeled through a belt and the combustion engine is actually turned on by that generator. VW explains the entire system is being developed as to switch off the engine "as much as possible while the vehicle is moving – in a barely perceptible way.”
 

In regards to the 48-volt lithium-ion battery pack, its role is to feed the starter generator with the necessary voltage, while the regular 12-volt power supply gets the required voltage from the DC/DC converter. The system will benefit from an energy recovery system, so it will be possible to charge the battery on the go while the car is slowing down.'

 

vw-48-v-belt-integrated-starter-generato

 

That's the battery pack right there - it's tiny. This is not intended for performance boost of any kind. it will get you moving and thats it. It's main purpose is for coasting and start stop efficiency as well as some energy recovery.

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One good thing is this will add very little (if any) weight overall. You will gain some weight savings by not having a starter motor and this all in one thing replacing the alternator as well. The 48v system also replaces the 12v battery, the smaller box in that picture is the DC-DC converter for 12v power.

 

With some other MQB tweaks for weight saving efficiencies which they said will be in the Mk8,  i expect the Golf R will come out the same weight overall with this system in it.

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Possibly not, with 400 BHP will it not encroach into RS3 territory and pee off Audi?

 

Unless both feature a power increase and a matching price hike.

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Add me to the sceptics group - I can't see VW adding that much power to the R without adding so much extra cost that it loses its competitive position in the marketplace against rivals like the RS3, A45 etc.  That's assuming the VAG management would allow direct competition against the RS3 which I doubt.

 

Changing to a full scale electric RWD system would be even more expensive, unless they spread the development cost across other vehicles in the MQB group, but I get the impression the future pure electric VWs are going to be built on a different architecture.

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1 hour ago, camelsac2002 said:

VW will also expect you to pay a lot more for it I reckon.


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This is one of the key things, new tech does not come cheap.

 

by removing the cheap bit from the R buying equation, then it will put a number of people off buying the next version.

 

that price hike will put it in the range of premium cars, which is crazy for a family sector car.

 

it will make moving to a BMW 340i xdrive a far simpler option, if paying extra I would rather get those extra cylinders and better / more tech kit options.

 

i wonder what Seat will be doing next, will they produce a better option for an R replacement than VW?

 

 

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I think the whole point of an R is that it is fairly cheap (Not much more than a GTI) practical and fun straight out of the box. Also quite tunable for the average person to close to 400 without a huge spend.

Yes it would be impressive if this all goes ahead but a basic base car price of £40k+ could kill the brand dead in the water imo.

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14 hours ago, Gavras said:

This is one of the key things, new tech does not come cheap.

 

by removing the cheap bit from the R buying equation, then it will put a number of people off buying the next version.

 

that price hike will put it in the range of premium cars, which is crazy for a family sector car.

 

it will make moving to a BMW 340i xdrive a far simpler option, if paying extra I would rather get those extra cylinders and better / more tech kit options.

 

i wonder what Seat will be doing next, will they produce a better option for an R replacement than VW?

 

 

 Any news on when/if a Tourer would be available in 340i XDrive??

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16 minutes ago, GaryP said:

 Any news on when/if a Tourer would be available in 340i XDrive??

It looks like will be later in the year (2019 - 2020).

 

the usual thing for BMW is to release the saloon and then 6 months or so later they release the Tourer and then later on in 2020 - 2021 they release the coupe (4 series)

 

the M340i xdrive is due out pretty much at launch and comes with 374bhp.

 

the big curve ball (if autocar are correct) is the release of an M3 Touring, this would obviously be set against the RS4, C63 estate.

 

if so I could see the M3 Touring being a rare beast.

 

 

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This is one of the key things, new tech does not come cheap.
 
by removing the cheap bit from the R buying equation, then it will put a number of people off buying the next version.
 
that price hike will put it in the range of premium cars, which is crazy for a family sector car.
 
it will make moving to a BMW 340i xdrive a far simpler option, if paying extra I would rather get those extra cylinders and better / more tech kit options.
 
i wonder what Seat will be doing next, will they produce a better option for an R replacement than VW?
 
 

Exactly my sentiments ref pushing it into premium territory - I can pick up a virtually brand new M240i M Performance - fully loaded, limited edition (1 of 750) with 700 miles on for £36k - could probably get a bit off too! I honestly don’t know what VW are playing at - they’re in a pickle at the mo, given the wltp debacle and the R and GTi not on the configurator. Very unprofessional imo.


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If you follow the history then an increase of about 50bhp would be about right....R32 was about 240/250. MK6 R 270 Mk7 296/306 Mk8 around 350.

VW have always been reserved , so are they about to change ? Unlikely imho and also 400bhp would take RS3 business ?

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