Pretoria’s are unsafe!

[Ernie McCracken]

23 hours ago, SS100 said:

Another cracked pret' here. Just got tyre pressure warning yesterday. Now on spacesaver. Co-incidentally car is booked in for warranty work (leaking thermostat) tomorrow. What is the probability of getting a new pret' under the same extended five year warranty?  If not what are my options?  New 19" VW pret' via dealer, used one from on line source or new replica?

 

Exactly the same happened to me late last week, thought it might be a defective tyre repair as it was a slow leak, dropping from 35psi to 20psi over 24/48 hours.

 

Mobile tyre fitter checked it for me and found a crack similar but not quite as large as the above.

 

He did say you can get them welded, but i have heard mixed things about doing that.

 

How the duck VW can charge £1035 for a single wheel amazes me, although one did offer a possible 10% off that!

 

Are the CM Wheels a different shade to the OEM Prets as I see they do a gun metal and a silver, but apart from that identical?

 

To be fair the amount of thuds from the various pot holes over the last 3 years I'm surprised all 4 haven't shattered!

 

 

[Ignition1]

Either VW know of the Pret issues, and internally it's known, but it's not publicised - I'm sure they'll find a way to argue this as legal, but it's morally bankrupt. They may have already hit their supplier with withheld payments or penalties but haven't passed on those savings to consumers.

 

Or they genuinely believe the supplier has provided Prets to the right standard, and the issues are due to people hitting pot holes etc. 

 

I'm no lawyer, but isn't there a "fit for purpose" law somewhere that protects against a seller saying "this product works", the buyer saying "but only for a a few days!" and the seller saying "doesn't matter, no refunds".

 

I suppose with "consumables" like brakes, wheels etc. it's hard to argue an inherent defect at all really. You could make wheels out of the weakest materials but if the pass a simple quality check at the factory and it meets the spec then it is "as sold". Someone's expectations might be "it's a 19" wheel, so it's naturally going to be weaker" while others might expect any size of wheel should be strong enough...but what is "enough"? And so on...

 

To get VW's attention, there will need to be a coordinated effort from owners - a lot of owners. Otherwise they will just palm off individual claims with ease. Who knows - OP's complaint to VW about weak Prets could have been one of several that same week...but nobody else would know about it, and VW (or any manufacturer) would prefer it that way! Again, not sure if there is a law to formally log complaints about defective parts but I highly doubt there is that level of transparency available to regulators or the public unless via legal proceedings.

 

With the amount of pot holes I've smashed into over the last 4 years - one of them enough to knock my front left camber out - if I had Prets on they'd look like pancakes. Fairly sure I'd be on aftermarkets by now.

[SS100]

1 hour ago, Ernie McCracken said:

 

Exactly the same happened to me late last week, thought it might be a defective tyre repair as it was a slow leak, dropping from 35psi to 20psi over 24/48 hours.

 

Mobile tyre fitter checked it for me and found a crack similar but not quite as large as the above.

 

He did say you can get them welded, but i have heard mixed things about doing that.

 

How the duck VW can charge £1035 for a single wheel amazes me, although one did offer a possible 10% off that!

 

Are the CM Wheels a different shade to the OEM Prets as I see they do a gun metal and a silver, but apart from that identical?

 

To be fair the amount of thuds from the various pot holes over the last 3 years I'm surprised all 4 haven't shattered!

 

 

Just had a call back from VW dealership, predictably said not covered by warranty. They said wheel is buckled which caused the crack!  This seems fairly unlikely as the wheel is, other than the obvious crack, in perfect condition. I have had from new, less than four years old and 32K miles.  As you said VW are happy to supply a new one at £1000 + .  Have managed to source an original replacement from an on-line supplier for a fraction of that as I need to use the car every day.  Will look to replace whole set in future as I don't trust Prets' (especially doing the odd track day). Did look at CM Pret' replicas which people on here seem to like but the offset seems to be 5mm different to the genuine Prets'.  I will check the,apparently buckled, wheel run-out with a DTI when I get back to work. 

[R_wannabe_owner]

1 hour ago, Ernie McCracken said:

Are the CM Wheels a different shade to the OEM Prets as I see they do a gun metal and a silver, but apart from that identical?

 

I think the shade of the genuine OEM VW Prets is a difficult to match silver/grey with a slight hint of blue, so there’s a good chance the CM Wheels replicas are a different shade. 
 

The CM Wheels replicas aren’t identical to the OEM wheels; Genuine OEM Prets are 8Jx19” with an offset of ET50. The CM Wheels replicas are 8Jx19” ET45, so the replicas will protrude an additional 5mm compared to the genuine VW wheels. There may also be a difference in centre bore size - aftermarket / replica alloys often have a larger centre bore than OEM wheels so they can be fitted to a wide range of vehicles. Where this is the case, then spigot rings are fitted inside the centre bore of the replica wheel to reduce it to OEM centre bore size (57.1). This may or may not be the case with the CM Wheels replicas; if it is, then there’s a chance the standard VW centre caps may also not fit the replica Prets. 

[Ernie McCracken]

Thank you, cant just by one then. If you can deal with the share then the ride will likely be off if they are slightly different size i guess.

 

SS100, did you buy from OEM Alloy Wheels? I enquired about it but it sold before i could buy.

 

[madmark]

i am shure a see somewere that the prets are made by ronal for vw ,there is also some dealers doing good deals on wheels set grey 18" for £1300 complete with tyres i was tempted to go down to 18"s  but not shure if the car would look ok ,i orded my car with 19" prets but always worry everytime i go over a pothole lol

 

[gregozedobe]

17 hours ago, madmark said:

i am shure a see somewere that the prets are made by ronal for vw ,there is also some dealers doing good deals on wheels set grey 18" for £1300 complete with tyres i was tempted to go down to 18"s  but not shure if the car would look ok ,i orded my car with 19" prets but always worry everytime i go over a pothole lol

 

 

My R wagon was delivered in 2017 with 19" Borbet brand Pretorias when I bought it new, markings on the inside of the wheels are:

BORBET BTG,  5G0 601 025 (CK or AJ),  Germany,   VW 109 K2,   (June '17 marking),  AlSi7 Mg wa,  JIL VW, 8Jx19 H2 ET50  

 

IIRC VW often has multiple suppliers for any part to give them both better prices, and also redundancy in case one supplier has manufacturing issues preventing delivery.  I have seen reports that indicate Borbet, Ronal & BBS all made Pretorias for VW.

https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/14809-how-to-identify-a-genuine-19-inch-pretoria-alloy/#comments

 

I also worry when hitting potholes, but so far no problems with bending or cracking (touch wood).

[R_wannabe_owner]

5 hours ago, gregozedobe said:

 

IIRC VW often has multiple suppliers for any part to give them both better prices, and also redundancy in case one supplier has manufacturing issues preventing delivery.  I have seen reports that indicate Borbet, Ronal & BBS all made Pretorias for VW.

https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/14809-how-to-identify-a-genuine-19-inch-pretoria-alloy/#comments

 

Yes, this is true. 
 

It’d be interesting to know whether Prets that have suffered damage can be attributed to one specific manufacturer or if the damage / failure rate is similar across all manufacturers used by VW to make these alloys. Something we’ll probably never know. 

[Booth11]

18 minutes ago, R_wannabe_owner said:

Yes, this is true. 
 

It’d be interesting to know whether Prets that have suffered damage can be attributed to one specific manufacturer or if the damage / failure rate is similar across all manufacturers used by VW to make these alloys. Something we’ll probably never know. 

That topic has come up before. It would be really interesting to see if it’s one particular manufacturer (Borbet, BBS or Ronal) has any weakness over another, but getting the data almost impossible.  My Prets are Borbet made and have fared very well thus far.  

[Beast Rider]

On 07/12/2020 at 10:38, Booth11 said:

Good to have hope!  Oem Prets on on mine for over 5 years (from new) with one Pret very slightly buckled otherwise all good.  Wheels were checked in October by Lepsons when having new tyres fitted.  I really do think its all down to what you hit, where you hit it  (on wheel), and how.  
 

Feel for @SS100 and anyone else who has suffered cracking though.  Highly unlikely VW will cover it under warranty unfortunately.

You haven’t recently sold your Mk7.5 R to vw Silver White? 

[Booth11]

51 minutes ago, Beast Rider said:

You haven’t recently sold your Mk7.5 R to vw Silver White? 

 

No, I never had a mk7.5R.  

[DaveRRR]

My 2017 R now has 100,000 mi and I’ve found the Prets to be easy to damage.  Thin tires and bad roads may be part of the problem.  A couple of new ones, 1 straightened and 1 welded.  Both repaired are holding up well.

[TheBlondeFella]

I've had 4 different 19 inch wheels on my R and they all seem to buckle at the same rate on UK roads atm. 

I moved to 18's as I couldn't cope any more.

[V6coop]

1 hour ago, TheBlondeFella said:

I've had 4 different 19 inch wheels on my R and they all seem to buckle at the same rate on UK roads atm. 

I moved to 18's as I couldn't cope any more.

@TheBlondeFella when you say 4 different 19" do you mean different manufacturers, so not just the VW Prets? If so, what were the other 19s you tried and over what sort of time period/mileage? How long have you had the 18s on so far and what are they?

[TheBlondeFella]

I was on the OEM Prets for around 2 years - No issues with the wheels. 1 x very slight buckle noticed when I had them re-furbed in bright silver that was so slight it was done for free.

 

I then moved to Neuspeed RSe10 19 x 8 for around 3 years - No issues, no buckles but I had a love / hate relationship with the way they looked on the car so decided I needed a change.

 

From there I went to Motec Ultralights 19 x 8.5. I curbed a wheel after around 10 months in a car park and used that as an excuse to have them done in bright silver (from the grey / silver).  They looked amazing after the re-furb and between the shape of the wheel and the colour they looked like 20s!

I hit a pothole 2 weeks later that buckled a wheel. Within 6 weeks 2 more were buckled so I had them straightened and decided to move them on.

 

After that I went for Revo RF19s 19 x 8.5. Managed to buckle all 4 (1 bad and the other three slightly) in 11 months so I got them straightened and decided to move them on and move to 18's and I'd just had enough.

 

Then I  bought Neuspeed Rs11r 18 x 8.5 wheels. The ride comfort is definitely better.

 

All wheels have been running PS4S tyres.

 

What annoys me is that I am really quite caerfull when spotting potholes and moving around them. I had 1 x slight buckle in the 1st five or so years but in the past 2 years I've have 8 or so buckles.

 

The roads in my area are just terrible, are getting worse and its not just the potholes. There are loads of sunken manhole covers and dips in the road that are like a pothole but almost invisible to see and the only way you know to drive round them is after you have hit them.

 

I've been going to Germany for the past 4 years and the roads the other side of the Channel Tunnel are just amazing compared to hear. Our roads in the UK are an utter disgrace.

 

My car has DCC and I drive permanrlty in comfort mode here in the UK. Once abroad, the setting is in race and its still smoother and more compliant than over here.