Golf GTD vs R

[camelsac2002]

Due to the nature of my job, I sometimes get a hire car to commute between home and wherever I’m working. Usually, it’s something like a Corsa, Fiesta or some Korean roller skate whilst some of my colleagues are lucky enough to end up with a Jag XE or Merc E class as that’s all the hire company have available. Last night, however, I was lucky enough to be given a Golf GTD so whilst on my 70 mile commute home I thought I would do a bit of comparison with my R. I thought there would be some notable differences but didn’t think there would be a massive gulf. Of course, the performance wouldn’t be comparable but I didn’t realise how poles apart they would be! Tbh, I found it very underwhelming - it didn’t feel particularly quick in comparison with other diesels I’ve driven and the usual narrow torque band was present - enough there to illuminate the traction control light but that was probably down to the front wheel drive more than anything. What was very noticeable was the lack of pull at higher speeds - this just highlighted how good the R’s wide spread of torque and power is - time and time again I put my foot down at higher speeds on the motorway and there was just nothing there! Another noticeable thing was fuel economy - best I managed was 47 mpg - whilst this is a bit more than the mid 30s I can get in my R on the motorway, by the time you take into account the extra cost of diesel over petrol, it’s a bit of a false economy - you’d have to have the car for a while and do a lot of miles before reaping the benefits although I dare say if you had it as a company car, diesel would be the way to go on the tax/ emissions front. It was described in some reviews as a diesel hot hatch - can’t see it myself although I didn’t really get a chance to push it on back roads. Due to my job going for a ball of chalk today, I have it for an extra day so will try and give it a proper workout but at the moment, if someone asked me if I’d buy one with my own cash, it would probably be a resounding no! I know there have been some other threads about GTDs supposedly out pulling Rs but on my own personal experience, I really can’t see it. Oh - one more point - some go on about the lack of noise etc and the soundaktor on the R - drive the GTD and you’ll be glad of the noise your R makes - the GTD’s noise is terrible - even with the soundaktor on, the noise is atrocious - but then that’s to be expected when you drive a car using fuel designed to pull a plough! All comments and experiences welcome!

 

 

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[phil4]

I had a GTD prior to my R.  I wouldn't argue much with your comments.

 

But it's horses for courses.  The GTD was a fair bit cheaper, "fast enough" most of the time (I'd quite often overtake a whole swathe of cars away from the lights, more because of the mid range, than from the off), and bar the diesel clatter at times, it was a nice place to be, mine had leather, winter pack, xenons, pro nav etc.     It was a nice way to crunch the miles to and from work.   And in fairness since replacing with the R, to and from work I've not had the chance to stretch it's legs, roads have been snow/ice, and the commute is just nose to tail queues of traffic.

 

Soon enough I'll get it on a country blast, and it'll be leagues ahead, but as I say, horses for courses, the GTD is no mini-R., but it's not a bad car in it's own right.

 

If you want to have a rant, the R-Line would be where I'd set my sights, how in anyway VW can hint it's like an R is beyond me.

[Gavras]

My wife had a long weekends test drive in a Golf GTD a couple years back (during the let's find a her a car month).

 

she never really jelled with it, a bit underwhelmed, admittedly she does not like diesels.

 

i can't remember it having a soundaktor, but a diesel with a soundaktor ?

 

who the hell wants to listen to a Massey Fergusson on max chat, cringe.

 

 

[phil4]

32 minutes ago, Gavras said:

i can't remember it having a soundaktor, but a diesel with a soundaktor ?

who the hell wants to listen to a Massey Fergusson on max chat, cringe.

 

Mine did, in sport mode it made it sound a bit more like a muscle car, the diesel engine itself was basically silent, unless it clattered (cold and certain revs).. so the soundaktor didn't really need much to make it sound like something it wasn't.

[JoeGTI7]

I owned a MK6 GTD years ago. The clatter on tickover, especially on cold starts, was typically appalling. Made worse at the time for me as I was parking in an underground indoor carpark and the enclosed space really amplified it! But once on the move it was a comfortable cruiser, especially on the motorway. It rev'd lower than the GTI/R at cruising speeds so it actually felt more comfortable in some ways for that type of journey, less drone than you'd get in an R.  I didn't find it too wanting either in the power department but I'd imagine if I went back to it now it would feel strange, now being used to the R.

[oryxgolfr]

My Wife had a 2014 GTD, I liked it so much (from a package perspective) I chopped my RS4 in for an 2104 R.  The driving experience was different, obviously, but steering weight was similar so jumping from one to another wasn't that different.  Having just received the 7.5R VW have come on leaps and bounds re: ride and handling.

 

The GTD was noisy and not very fast.

[Exonian]

I’m not really a spreadsheet type of person although I have to use them a fair bit at work. However I’m sure there are an awful lot of GTD and R owners that spend an awful lot of time messing about with spreadsheets. 

 

The GTD is a spreadsheet type of car. 

 

Put it all down into a spreadsheet and it makes a hell of a lot of sense. 

Low company car tax. Tick.

low running costs with strong resale value. Tick.

Looks like a hot hatch. Tick.

Hot hatch underpinnings. Same chassis and brakes as the well rated Golf GTI. Tick.

Hot hatch performance. Flip back through some previous spreadsheets here. Yep, similar performance stats to the iconic mk2 GTI 16v and possibly better stats than quite a few other historic Golf GTI’s, maybe even comes close on paper to VR6’s and even the mk4 R32 in some commonly used acceleration tests. Tick.

Hot hatch interior. Tick 

 

Yeah, it all stacks up there.

 

Right, How does it compare to a Golf R on our spreadsheet? 

 

Same torque peak at similar RPM’s. 

Lighter so some BHP advantage nullified. 

Lower revving so you don’t have to wring its neck in give and take driving.

 

Still looking good.

 

In one of those “it seemed like a good idea at the time” moments around this time last year VW cleared out the last of the line production run of mk7’s with some massive discounts to be had, so I set myself a challenge of “how cheap can I get a performance Golf for?” 

 

It it did seem like a good idea at the time.

I’d just sold my R as I wasn’t using it but realised I still needed a Golf in my life, 

 

I managed to get a factory order vanilla spec GTD for around £21k.

Bear in mind in 2005 that’s what you’d have paid for a new 5 door Golf GTI which had no Nav, no keyless, no 18” wheels, no xenons, no bum warmers in the seats...

 

Still looking good on the spreadsheet. 

 

In March this year I got the results of the spreadsheet quest in front of me which took the form of a White 5 door GTD. 

 

How does real life compare with a spreadsheet? 

 

Lets just say the GTD is a very good Diesel Golf. 

 

But, to an ex-R owner it wasn’t a very good option on so many levels that aren’t on spreadsheets. 

 

The best summary I can give is that it lasted me seven weeks before I chopped it in for a pre-registered Clubsport GTI. 

 

The GTD lacks personality. 

Yes, it has the looks, the spec, even the performance up to a point. 

The engine is slow revving and not as much fun as the old PD Diesels from ten years ago. 

The gearing is high so you have to drive it hard to get the best from it. 

The brakes aren’t the best. 

 

The biggest strengths of the GTD are steady state cruising where it’s quiet and refined with decent economy.

Gentle driving is good too where you can ease along on the prodigious torque.  

And flat out it goes reasonably well. 

 

Get out of the GTD and step into an R though and you really do find the engine performance and response to be on a different level.

The R just goes, no matter what the revs. The R engine spins around very quickly and seamlessly and sounds a million times better. 

It’s perfectly understandable why people buy GTD’s in huge numbers as it’s a very good car in its own right. 

But it just doesn’t have that ingredient X that makes the R shine so brightly. 

 

For those that think their R is a bit dull due to over familiarity, invest a couple hundred quid in hiring a GTD for a few days and you’ll soon be buying your R red roses again!  

 

 

 

[PHILC]

I had a 60 plate Octavia VRS diesel hatch, first gear was useless but once in second + it pulled like a train, however it soon ran out of puff and you had to be willing to work the gears. The biggest problem with it, particularly this time of the year with heavy traffic, was the DPF. I often had to go for a dash down the A12 to let it regenerate which rather negated the better mpg quoted over the petrol. It was quiet, fast and I quite often, on a long run, got 59-60 mpg. It was very slow to fill at the pump and no matter how careful you were you couldn't avoid the smell of Diesel on your hands, shoes, floor mats, steering wheel, clothes and anything else you happened to touch(!) I rather liked it, though, it was very well built, cheap, I bought it when Skoda were doing one of their no VAT deals with a discount for £17k and traded it in three years later for £12.5k.

[fatherted]

I've just swapped a mk7 GTD for a mk7 R.

 

Always thought the GTD was a bit tame as standard but once I put a DTUK CRD3+ in, it made a big difference and pulled at higher revs more like a petrol.

 

I miss the 46-50 MPG I was getting (as opposed to 24-30 MPG now) but the handling and noise are the biggest differences I have noticed after a week with the R.

[Splats]

Would love to see these threads about GTD's out dragging R's.  I've got a Leon FR TDI (GTD basically) and while it's punchy enough to get around, it simply wouldn't see where the R went in pretty much any circumstance.  We're not talking a small difference in performance, we are talking a massive - football pitches down a slip road - sort of difference.

[PHILC]

The R is simply the best on wet. slippery roads, which is all we seem to get at the moment. 

[Ignition1]

2 hours ago, PHILC said:

The R is simply the best on wet. slippery roads, which is all we seem to get at the moment. 

 

That's it for me really. I have test driven a GTD and been a passenger in a fast drive in one. It's got that diesel-quickness about it. The torque is obviously there, but feels breathless and rough at high RPM. Clattering on the outside as well which I didn't like at all. Wouldn't call it a hot hatch, though it has the look of one. And actually a freshly cleaned and waxed GTD with a nice colour (the grey suits it) can look as good as a GTI or an R. Same tinted tail lights and front lights, and standard wheels look great.

 

Personally though, regardless of the higher price and running costs, I'd always go 4WD in future - 4Matic, 4Motion, XDrive, Quattro...and whatever the non-German brands call it as well. Not just for the rare bit of snow I see here in London, but purely for traction off the line. It's the most useful feature that you can use at anytime in any conditions.

[Bridges]

I have recently changed from a Leon FR 184 to an R. Apart from the eco benefit of the Leon the R wins hands down in every other respect.

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[Lemar]

One its 120 bhp down 

not 4wd 

once remapped it’s nearly as quick as a  gti if not quicker 

[Mainframe]

I had a remapped gtd 6.  About 200hp and plenty twist action. 

 

With DSG the realatively narrow power band was unapparent in most everyday driving.  And there's the rub, it's a great everyday driver, and a quite relaxed motorway cruiser.  Without remap it still produces same torque as an R.  

 

The R is faster,  of course, everywhere  - except on motorwy Andrew cruising part throttle or 'roll-on' performance, where the GTD trumps it every time.  GTD accelerates harder, sooner on part performance.  You always have to stab the throttle drop an extra cog in the R to extract the instant twist action.  

 

What at do I prefer? Ha, what do I drive?  And the CR 4 pot is a rough unit, compared to says 6 pot BMW derver..   they are quite different cars in character.  

 

...but it a hard-driven GTD will keep an R honest on the road, once rolling cross country, and until the speeds get silly.